Hello, everybody! If you'd like to discuss anything with me, please post new topics at the bottom of the page and sign the posts with 4 tildes (the ~ key) in a row. Thanks!

Currently inactive discussions can be found at User talk:Ikan Kekek/archive. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:00, 17 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

As you already know, I have been updating entries for various UK locations, in particular updating some out of date telephone numbers (also correcting many incorrectly formatted numbers).

Various directions/guidance/regulations introduced between 2010 and 2015 in the UK banned the usage of premium rate 084/087/09 numbers for many things and most organisations changed their contact telephone number(s) to comply. Many such numbers remain in use for other purposes. For those remaining numbers, Ofcom introduced rules for stating the call charges immediately adjacent to the number everywhere it is mentioned.

While adding that call charge information here, I had the idea that it would be a bit easier if there was a module (is that the right word?) to help with that.

I envisage typing the following to get the results shown below (underlining for emphasis only in this discussion):

{{PremiumCallChargeUK|50p|}}

Calls incur a 50p per call service charge, plus your phone provider's per-minute access charge.

{{PremiumCallChargeUK||£1.50}}

Calls incur a £1.50 per minute service charge, plus your phone provider's per-minute access charge.

{{PremiumCallChargeUK|75p|40p}}

Calls incur a 75p per call and 40p per minute service charge, plus your phone provider's per-minute access charge.

Is this idea feasible?

Is it a lot of work to set up, or fairly simple?

Is there already a large queue of this type of coding work waiting to be actioned, and hence a long delay?

Where would be the right place to make such a suggestion?

Thanks in advance!

-- 89.241.68.238 07:57, 29 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

I can try make a mockup template (which is what they're called here – modules are something entirely different) when I get some time if you want. //shb (t | c | m) 08:15, 29 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sounds like a plan! Many thanks.

-- 89.241.68.238 08:30, 29 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't really know much about this kind of technical stuff, but I think it's a great idea, and I appreciate what you've been doing! Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:20, 29 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Should this include a timestamp? I assume the rate isn't always checked when the lastedit field should get updated.

Also, should this allow for use for other countries? For Finland, the "ppm/mvm" (your operators charge) is explained in Connect, so one doesn't need that long a wording, but otherwise I don't see why the template wouldn't work for most countries.

–LPfi (talk) 18:03, 29 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Within the 084, 087, 090, 091 and 098 number ranges, each block of 10000 numbers has a defined price point. e.g. all 0844 600 xxxx numbers have the same service charge as each other, all 0844 601 xxxx numbers may have a different service charge level, but with all numbers in that block having the same level as each other.

In order for the service charge incurred when calling any particular organisation to change, that organisation would have to change their number to one in a number block with their required level of service charge (or, all users of a block of 10000 numbers would need to agree to a change of price). In the ten years the split charge scheme has been in force, I am not aware of a single price change for the service charge anywhere in the 084, 087, 090, 091 or 098 number ranges. I am unconvinced a datestamp is required, at least for UK usage..

(DQ numbers starting 118xxx are a different topic. Those numbers are individually allocated and priced and the prices for some of those numbers have changed many times in the last decade, but we don't really list those here. One is mentioned once purely as a warning as to the expense.)

I didn't envisage a multi-country template, purely because of the specifics of the UK system. I did consider that some other countries may like their own template, and I gave a nod to that by including UK as part of the suggested template name. More discussion needed.

-- 89.241.66.42 23:13, 29 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thank you. In Finland, the charges must be told when advertising a premium-rate number, and there is a number where you can ask for the current price, but in practice, one needs to be careful – I don't know of any regulation regarding price levels or changing of price. For Finland, thus, the timestamp may be important. But as the timestamp could be optional, adding it wouldn't require a separate template. I don't know to what extent other countries require any specific handling – and one could have optional parameters for countries with their own strangenesses. –LPfi (talk) 06:22, 30 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

(FYI, we would say the charges must be stated or that consumers must be informed of the charges. We wouldn't use "told" as an intransitive verb.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:48, 30 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I'm somewhat late but I've made the template you requested at Template:PremiumCallChargeUK. Haven't had much time lately but I should be a lot more free now. //shb (t | c | m) 07:42, 10 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

That looks amazing. Many thanks for putting this together. That was very quick.

I hope this is OK - I have made a couple of minor changes to the template doc introduction text for clarification on usage.

I have held back on the initial number tidying work, that I had originally started, for a few days, and this will make the job quite a bit simpler going forward.

I have noted the instruction not to add to articles until discussion is complete.

-- 89.241.66.102 08:43, 10 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Perfect and thanks for tidying up my documentation. :) //shb (t | c | m) 08:46, 10 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

The tlx part seems to break things, so I have removed it for now.

I have had a look at the documentation for some other templates and there seems to be a very wide variety of ways of doing things - and perhaps no one right way. I have "borrowed" a few of the things I have found along the way and updated the documentation.

-- 89.241.66.102 17:27, 10 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have added a lot more to the documentation. Any other suggestions?

-- 89.241.66.102 16:06, 12 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I reverted some spam in article Manjeri.

Just letting you know, in case you need to take any further action.

-- 89.241.66.42 12:06, 4 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, appreciated. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:19, 4 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

The official website 5050674 is tagged as being a dead link in 2023, but appears to be working. Should the tag be removed? -- 89.241.66.102 07:19, 19 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Definitely. But I imagine it's now https? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:23, 19 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

If the link is tagged again and works with Javascript enabled but not without, one can add {{cbignore}}, which instructs the bot to ignore the link. –LPfi (talk) 08:52, 19 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the tip. -- 89.241.66.102 12:36, 19 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, I didn't know about that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:58, 19 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I see the other unofficial website, touted as official, has been re-posted again on the same page as before. -- 89.241.66.102 23:39, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Please undo that edit, and thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:17, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your last copy editing in Theft. It seems I changed my mind about what to write without changing all wordings accordingly, for the first phrase. For the last, I just didn't think of that simple word. Nice to have people improving my language – in Swedish and Finnish I can usually express myself well, and I learn a lot of English by participating here. –LPfi (talk) 16:45, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Your English is great for a 3rd language! Glad to help, and Happy Easter! Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:49, 20 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

 :-) –LPfi (talk) 06:47, 21 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for reminding me to use a template when adding new listings. Actually, I usually do use the template, but am currently adding listings via my iPhone, and I cannot locate the template link on the edit page. Any advise would be appreciated. Thank you so much SingyeDzong (talk)

Hi, SingyeDzong. There should be an easy way to add listing templates in the mobile version of this site, but I tried to figure out how to do it just now, and all I could see was to copy existing templated listings and change the content of every tab, which is a pain in the neck. So I'm going to start a thread in the pub and see if anyone else can address this problem. I have an iPhone, too, and the mobile interface on this site is not good, so there are types of edits I normally don't make until I'm at the computer. Thanks for contacting me about this. It's really no good. Best, Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:55, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your reply. I have the same issue with my iPad. Hope we can find a solution to the problem. Thank you again. ~~~ SingyeDzong (talk) 15:17, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

On mobile I check the "use desktop site" option in the browser settings, and remove the "m." from the URL in the address bar, and then it all works just fine. -- 80.47.44.159 15:51, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

That's a good workaround, but it shouldn't be necessary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:14, 23 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have no idea what this page is, but we're doing Ikan Kekek in our school choir and I was wondering if you had any info on the song seeing as you're familiar with it. Sorry to bother if not, thank you! 159.191.206.1 20:07, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

That's cool! I only know it as a children's song. I don't know its history. If you find out interesting information, please let me know! And have a good performance. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:16, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

When did that change? I remember when I watched Phantom of the Opera on Broadway (around 2005 or so), it had a full orchestra accompanying it. I could most certainly hear the music coming from the orchestra pit, and it didn't seem like they were playing pre-recorded music? The dog2 (talk) 22:01, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

Not all musicals are like Phantom. There was a musicians' strike on Broadway a bunch of years ago, and the union basically caved. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:30, 28 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

You asked about "  -zione": "That looked ridiculous with the - by itself at the end of the line. But why is there now a space at the beginning of the line? I can't see how to get rid of it."

It's the non-breaking space, which moves to the following line with the hyphen, as you told the renderer that those two mustn't be separated (a space, yes, which is to be kept together with the characters before and after – but whitespace in HTML should be collapsed, so the space before it may have been absorbed by the newline.

What you want is a zero-width non-breaking space (nowadays replaced by the word joiner) between the hyphen and the suffix: U+2060, ⁠ Like this: "-⁠zione".

Alternatively, you could use the non-breaking ("hard") hyphen, U+2011: "‑zione". This Unicode character is the appropriate one, but it looks confusing in the wikitext (and if you just insert it as a character, it probably is indistinguishable from a soft hyphen for most). I don't know which construct to prefer.

–LPfi (talk) 17:46, 9 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for explaining. Does it matter which of those two to use? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:06, 9 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Or of four options. If wikitext editors would generally show the hard hyphen distinguishably, I would support just using the character itself. If it had an HTML code, I'd use that. The numeric code is arcane enough that I prefer the soft hyphen + word joiner solution, although it is a bit odd to use the pair instead of the character meant for this use. One solution more is the template {{nowrap}}, which I probably had used unless I had got into it from the technical perspective ("but why…"). I think wikitext readability overshadows any other issues, unless there is some specific reason for one of them not working. –LPfi (talk) 19:51, 12 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Do not delete useful information for a foreign traveler regarding the state of police violence in Greece, especially in Athens. Many tourists visit the city and should be informed. You can see and this https://www.ethnos.gr/greece/article/366346/orgiobiaskaikatastolhsstaexarxeiaoiastynomikoiespasantomisomagazileeiidiokththstoympar. Next time to be more carefull. —The preceding comment was added by RedBaronGR (talk • contribs) 12:40, May 19, 2025

You have been blocked accordingly for 1 week for edit warring. //shb (t | c | m) 12:47, 19 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hey, I know this is somewhat random but since we discussed this a bit last year and voting for U4C starts in a few days, wanted to ask you for some feedback. I've created a guide at m:User:SHB2000/U4C guide 2025, but I'm wondering if it's easy to understand for non-Meta regulars. I did use a lot of abbreviations to save some space in the table but tried to clarify it, but I may have missed something. //shb (t | c | m) 02:27, 30 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'll wait a few days till I get home to my computer, because I think it'll be easier to see the whole chart. What is U4C, though? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:58, 30 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sure thing :). U4C is the charter that helps to facilitate the enforcement of the Universal Code of Conduct, though I can't remember what it fully stands for (also previous discussion). //shb (t | c | m) 03:23, 30 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:31, 30 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Shortened my first contr. Do believe it deserves the spot since 1) the FTT was founded in RSA and 2) their website shows all certified places, handy for travellers keen on sustainable tourism. The 4 examples mentioned are all distinct & SME's or non-profit not looking for investor (relations). Frankbel (talk) 10:24, 9 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

If you're asking me my opinion about an edit you made, it's a lot easier if you link it. I can look later and see if you clearly showed how this organization could be relevant and interesting to travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:06, 9 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Frankbel, I looked at your latest edit, which was reverted. I still didn't like it. It read like a promotional edit, and some of the organizations mentioned and described in it seemed irrelevant to travelers, while the specific mention of a tour agency felt like a violation of Wikivoyage:Don't tout. I think it could be OK to mention the FTT very briefly in South Africa#Do with a link as a way for a visitor to pick a responsible tour agency if they decide to use one, but I think that's all, and a discussion at Talk:South Africa would be most useful, as hardly anyone else is likely to see this thread on my user talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:49, 9 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Get it. Give me a day or so to give decent responce. Don't want emotions to take over, and pretty bussy these days with a start-up. Frankbel (talk) 17:12, 11 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

No worries. The site will be around whenever you have the time. Best, Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:28, 11 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

The errors you fixed in Jos today, I had already fixed once just a few hours prior, but the original editor re-added them again in the meantime. That particular editor has made the same sort of errors on other pages before. -- 78.151.51.152 23:04, 14 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

I noticed you posted to their user talk page. Thanks for doing that. I hope the message gets through. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:18, 15 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

wv:banners says: "Correctly sized banners are by default more appropriate than incorrectly sized banners." I have restored the 7:1 banner that replaced the non-standard banner. Ground Zero (talk) 11:11, 20 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Ah, I didn't think the proportions were OK. It seemed to be closer to 10:1 than 7:1. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:50, 20 June 2025 (UTC)Reply