Hello, Ikan Kekek! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Project:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub.

I wanted to make sure you got the proper welcome! And thanks for your work on NYC. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:26, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

Thank you, Peter, and thanks for your work, too! (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:08, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

• Hey, thanks for the compliments. Anyway, you asked about the Chinatown article - I'm planning to improve it further, the reason I took down the cuisine categories is that Wikivoyage articles don't usually divide restaurants by cuisine, they divide them by price. If you think about it, it's simpler to just have three simple categories (by price) then to have multiple categories (by cuisine), especially when a lot of those categories have only one or two listings. Anyway, the current state of the article is just temporary. (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 00:14, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for creating a user page - I was wondering why someone who posted about etiquette-as-practiced-in-Manhattan had a user name that sounded Southeast Asian-ish, but now the mystery has been solved :) -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 02:04, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

Yeah. I was really bicultural as well as bilingual for most of those 2 years. And I spoke Malay with a thick Terengganu accent! I still have some traditional Malay beliefs today. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 02:16, 12 April 2011 (EDT)

Hi Ikan,

   Thanks for editing the page of my province,Urdaneta! You are great editor.I'm jealous but i'm happy that you edit correctly the page.Thanks! 

(WT-en) Angellene10

While I'll stay as long from any punctuation debate as I possibly can. Just a quick pointer, new sections on talk pages should always be added to the bottom of the page. Otherwise us old dogs that you can't teach new tricks, have trouble finding the stuff. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 17:37, 11 October 2009 (EDT)

Thanks, Stefan. I'll keep that in mind. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 22:44, 11 October 2009 (EDT)

Hi Ikan Sorry to piss you off. Don't worry this is only a school project and I just want an A. Delete whatever, I don't care as long as my teacher sees what I wrote in the history it works. Have a good one. Heatherberg

The thing is, you're doing a very good job and your contributions are much appreciated. Don't take my edits based on Wikivoyage policies too much to heart. I hope that you stick around when you no longer need to do this for a grade.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 22:42, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

Thanks for the kind comment I hope to build the page even better, I am actually in kota kinabalu Malaysia traveling right now and wikivoyage has saved me many times that I am trying to repay the favor haha. -Travellight

I think you've already figured this out, but to recap, the External links policy in a nutshell is that primary sites (hotels, airlines, restaurants, etc) directly operated by the thing listed are OK, but secondary sites (booking engines, blogs, newspapers, travel guides) maintained by others are not. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:41, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, I did get that, thanks. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 02:26, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

We have tentatively agreed on a districts scheme for Brooklyn, and I was hoping you might take a look over it and share any feedback. It would also be fantastic, of course, if you would be willing to pitch in a bit with the actual task of moving content to new districts articles and replacing that content with overview prose in the Brooklyn article itself! --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:19, 5 November 2009 (EST)

Just a heads up that this confusingly named section actually is meant to highlight nearby destinations worth visiting, rather than transport information! --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 21:05, 24 August 2010 (EDT)

It's customary to ask someone if they'd be interested in having some additional buttons prior to a nomination. You've been around for a while, know the site's policies well, and would benefit from a rollback button, so would you mind if I put you up for nomination? -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:29, 1 April 2011 (EDT)

Thanks, Ryan. If given the shiny new buttons, I promise not to break them.

All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 04:41, 1 April 2011 (EDT)

Two weeks have passed, so welcome to the admin club! You may need to log out and then log in again to see any change. Check out the Project:Administrator's handbook for instructions on how to use your shiny new buttons - while the "revert" button is pretty tough, "block", "protect" and "delete" should be handled with utmost care. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:47, 15 April 2011 (EDT)

Thanks, Ryan. I appreciate the confidence you all have shown in me. I expect to lean on you and the others for advice from time to time, while I learn the ropes.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:51, 15 April 2011 (EDT)

A question: What does "Rollback" do that's different from "Revert," if anything? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:54, 15 April 2011 (EDT)

I may have made a typo above - "rollback" as described here is what I meant when I typed "revert" above. It's useful for cases of vandalism, repeated policy violations, or other cases that involve reverting one or more edits that don't require any edit summary. If you're seeing "revert" anywhere then I suspect it's the same functionality, although I'm not seeing that option on a quick perusal of recent change or history pages so if you've got questions about a specific link you might need to let me know where you're seeing it :) -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 17:02, 15 April 2011 (EDT)

"Revert" is what I mean by the "undo" button. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 17:22, 15 April 2011 (EDT)

Rollback is a single step, which saves time but does not allow you to enter an edit summary. It automatically marks the edits in question as "patrolled" and removes all consecutive contributions that a person has made (undo removes only a single edit) so if someone makes five malicious edits in a row then rollback will remove all of them. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 17:28, 15 April 2011 (EDT)

Hi Ikan, I notice you remove my work about car hire service from Yangshuo page. I think it is the same as hotel and restaurant listing. Should be okay to put it there.

I posted about this in the "Talk" (discussion) page for Yangshuo, so it's best to discuss it there, but part of the problem is what seems to me a touty tone in your description. But as I said, let's discuss the question there, where any other users interested in Yangshuo can easily address it.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:46, 14 April 2011 (EDT)

hi Ikan,

My car rental site is being removed from the link http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Dehradun#By_car

the policy says "Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city). Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required. " There is only one other listing. is there something wrong with my listing (WT-en) Ano0810 09:36, 4 June 2011 (EDT)ano0810

Hi. (1) Please identify yourself on talk pages by typing 4 tildes (the "~" key) in a row at the end of your post, so that I know who you are. I'm guessing you are the owner of HemKund Sahib Tours and Travel? If so, you would have to satisfy the criteria under Project:Activity listings#Tour listings. In any case, you could have at most one listing and it would have to be in the right format (again, read Project:Activity listings). If this doesn't answer your questions, please clarify what you are asking about.

All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:15, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek Thank you for the information. I have read through the links provided and published in accordance with the guidelines. Please let me know if there is something more I could do to make the listing better. (WT-en) Ano0810 10:01, 4 June 2011 (EDT)ano0810

The problem is, it's not clear from either your listing or your website what services you provide. If you are a tour provider, that lack of clarity makes you out of compliance with the criteria for acceptable tour listings, under Project:Activity listings#Tour listings.

made some more changes (WT-en) Ano0810 19:30, 4 June 2011 (EDT)ano0810

I saw. I regret that I have to delete your listing for violating the criteria on tour listings that I linked for you above. You are offering a non-specific tour listing that in no way indicates how an independent traveler can't do it by him-/herself. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 19:32, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

There is another listing in the same section. Could you throw some light on how that follows the rules laid down the wiki? Thnx(WT-en) Ano0810 19:59, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

If you think a listing is against the rules, Project:Plunge forward and delete it yourself, giving your reason in your editing "Summary". I think you mean the "AC Volvo" listing, which is a bit confusing, so I don't know whether to delete it or not. You probably know better whether it's merely informational or really promotional. But that said, if it's really just a listing for a bus trip, not a tour agency, it's probably fine. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 20:05, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

Quick note in case you weren't aware of this before, but when you are entering text in edit summaries, if you use wiki link formats instead of full URLs, the link will be clickable from the recent changes and history pages. For example, instead of:

Hard revert. Edit to eliminate 1st-person language and repost. http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:First_person_pronouns

...in which case the URL shows up in the edit summary as plain text, you can write:

Hard revert. Edit to eliminate 1st-person language and repost. Project:First person pronouns

...in which case the URL will be a clickable link in the edit summary. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:15, 14 April 2011 (EDT)

Thanks, Ryan. All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 18:04, 14 April 2011 (EDT)

Thanks for helping patrolling, but please remember to mark as patrolled, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 17:39, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

I don't mark articles as patrolled if instead of just patrolling them, I edit them. Are you suggesting that I marked them as patrolled in such instances? If so, please explain. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:01, 19 April 2011 (EDT)

I may not understand the purpose of marking a revision as "patrolled." I have been operating on the basis that doing so means that I approve of the edit. What does it actually mean? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:43, 19 April 2011 (EDT)

It means that you either approve of the edit or have fixed the part of the edit that you do not approve. So clicken 'mark as patrolled' tells the rest of us that we do not need to check the edit because you have done it already, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 07:41, 19 April 2011 (EDT)

I see. Thanks for explaining. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 10:44, 19 April 2011 (EDT)

Once again, thanks for patrolling. One hint: I see you patrol one edit at a time, which of course is ok, but if you would like to patrol all recent changes to one artilce in one move, you can go to Prefences > Recent changes, and click 'Enhanced recent changes (JavaScript)', regards, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 05:28, 25 April 2011 (EDT)

Thanks. I'll try that and see how it works. All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:34, 25 April 2011 (EDT)

It really will make a difference. When I first discovered that feature it was like a whole new world of Wikivoyage efficiency :). --(WT-en) Burmesedays 06:23, 25 April 2011 (EDT)

Hi! I have seen your comment on vfd concerning Forex. Felix is not an admin, so when he sees spam he needs to label with vfd so an admin sees it and hits the delete button. (WT-en) jan 04:33, 29 April 2011 (EDT)

Thanks. I understand. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 14:44, 29 April 2011 (EDT)

You asked about my edits on the above page. The reason that I am changing the Pure lotus listing is simple. It is wrong. I am a freelance travel writer on commission for a large US publisher. I am writing this from Yangshuo. In order to update the current edition info of the book that I am working on that includes Pure Lotus, I went to the restaurant myself. I confronted both the manager Xiao Dai, and the owner Malcom The, about the criticisms on the wikivoyage page, and both assured me that they are unfounded. Perhaps you have some extra information that I do not know about? I am not sure who wrote the original piece but it seems unfair that one person's opinion, offering no additional explanation should be acceptable as a wikivoyage listing. Sbouldn't wikivoyage be based on facts rather than personal opinions? Isn't that what Tripadvisor is for? I hope that this explains my edits. Chris

No, I don't have more information. All you had to do was explain why you're making the edits, which you now have done. You should be able to understand that we have quite a lot of touters and self-interested people here who would make the kind of edits you made without comment for commercial reasons, and not in the interest of accuracy. So we can't just assume there's a good reason for the kind of edit you made.

As for the question you ask about facts vs. opinions: Wikivoyage shouldn't be a purveyor of false information, but it is not supposed to be objective. The policy is summed up here: Project:Be fair

Thanks for explaining things, and please keep contributing but explain in the editing Summary why you're making any non-obvious changes.

All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 17:31, 9 May 2011 (EDT)

It looks like an inadvertent reversion caused me to repost some graffiti on May 2, 2011 in the Hinchinbrook Island guide. Sorry about that. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 19:51, 15 May 2011 (EDT)

Hi there. Just out of courtesy I want to let you know that I have reverted your deletion here [1], as this is the correct article for that operator (who is a good one). I realise why you deleted it as the user inserted it into the region and sub-region articles as well, but I think it ought to stay in the correct article. Cheers --(WT-en) Burmesedays 01:28, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

Thanks for the courtesy, and for your knowledgeable second opinion. All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:36, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

Thanks for offering the local perspective on that John's Pizzeria listing I added. I'm not familiar with the NYC pizza scene, but after watching this Daily Show clip I figured I'd better make sure these places were at least mentioned on Wikivoyage. ;) (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 19:43, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

That was a hilarious segment! And you are making good additions, which are much appreciated. I wouldn't recommend that location of John's, but it is extremely popular, though mostly with tourists. We New Yorkers usually spend as little time as possible at Times Square, nowadays. :-) All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 19:50, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

Whoa, that video was legendary! --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 12:46, 7 June 2011 (EDT)

Here you go :) Wikivoyage_talk:User_ban_nominations#User_talk:Xiali1208. Cheers. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:27, 11 June 2011 (EDT)

Hi there (with apologies for a cut and paste message). I am trying to muster up some interest again in the now almost moribund Destination of the Month feature. This used to be one of our more dynamic initiatives with lots of debate. Sadly, that is no longer the case. I have made some new nominations to try to get it going again. If you have a moment please pop over there. And some nominations would be good if you can think of any! Thanks. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:22, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Hello Ikan Kekek,

Thank you to take care of wikivoyage pages.

You ask if Jordantracks is an abusive company. We also remark that people are making a lot of changes in the page, adding and deleting informations about us and about others. The final result appears that Jordantracks can't be mention in the same way than the others and is always the one removed. Could you please help for this page as it would be good that everyone have the chance to appear in the same way.

Kind regards,

Saleem

Hi, Saleem, and thanks for contacting me. Are you representing Jordantracks? I would suggest that you post to the "Talk" page of the Wadi Rum guide if you believe you are being unfairly treated, rather than that you or someone else presumably representing Jordantracks has made abusive edits. Because what I observe is that you or someone else was posting up to 4 separate entries for Jordantracks and deleting competitors' information. I already made clear what was wrong here - [[2]] - among other places. There is also a very firm policy against business owners (managers, etc.) deleting competitors' listings, but it should be so obvious that's wrong, and at least looks and smells so much like bad faith, that I don't feel I need to link to the policy.

If you want to post an entry for your agency, do so, do it once, don't tout or use 1st-person language, and don't delete or edit any other agency's listing.

Sincerely,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:39, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

PS: It's customary to sign posts in "Talk" pages - though not guides - by typing 4 tildes (the "~" key) in a row at the end of one's post.

Hello Ikan Kekek,

thank you for pointing out that there should be only one business listing, but as you might know diving and freediving are quite different and its not about having Alvaro Diving listed twice, but to have a listing in the right category. Since there is a "diving" and a separate "freediving" section Alvaro Diving belongs in both of them, otherwise you will find only one company in the freediving section and the other one somewhere hidden amongst the dive shops. do you have any suggestions on how to deal with the category listings other then deleting Alvaro Diving all the time?? Regards, Andreas

Sure, Andreas, and thanks for asking. Pick which type of diving you want to emphasize more, put the listing in that section, and indicate in your listing that you offer the other activity, too. That will enable you to put the information out there, and I believe it's probably the only solution that conforms to Wikivoyage's listing policy.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:01, 18 July 2011 (EDT)

Hi! Currently there are some trolls that delete and move articles a lot. There is not need to argue with them as they vandalise. Please immediately block them and delete their created mess. Thank you, (WT-en) jan 04:08, 4 August 2011 (EDT)

Please point out instances of this happening. I am here only part of the time and don't see everything that happens.

That said, I probably wouldn't block a user right away unless they were an obvious spambot. We all need to deal with a certain degree of frustration and use some measure of restraint. Some users start out disruptively but improve greatly. I've certainly seen that with some users who used to be seemingly inveterate touters.

All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 04:15, 4 August 2011 (EDT)

I am just checking, do you have an account on Wikivoyage Shared? If yes, you may, if you like, become an administrator there, which are privileges automatically given to admins from other language versions that want them. If not, I suppose you might prefer to first become acquainted with the policies and procedures over there ;) --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 18:20, 10 August 2011 (EDT)

Hi, Peter. No, I don't have an account there. So I'm definitely not ready to become an administrator there at this time. :-) All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 00:54, 11 August 2011 (EDT)

I realise that lately you are often plying a lone battle with edit patrolling. Much of that is due to other regular patrollers being so frustrated by the slowness of the site. Huge kudos to you for carrying on with this against the odds. You certainly deserve one of these. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 07:11, 26 August 2011 (EDT)

Thanks for the appreciation, Burmesedays. I, too, am frustrated by the slowness of the site.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:02, 26 August 2011 (EDT)

Hi Ikan, I can understand your confusion. The shallow and sketchy reporting on Libya by the worlds media is not particularly informing, not in an way that is reality based anyway. There seems to be a determined move to legitimise the NTC by NATO allied governments and their media services but even the National Transitional Council do not claim to have formed a government. Indeed they recently again suspended plans to do so. They are subject to considerable internal divisions and conflict and occasionally bump each other off. Some qualified commentators consider that the place is going to go downhill even further and I will not be surprised if this odd assemblage of provocateurs, traitors and defectors from the original government, various ex-muǧāhidūn and so-called al-Qaeda elements don't go even more feral soon and start shooting at each other now that they are apparently running out members of the Libyan armed forces, Gaddafi supporters and angry residents to blaze away at. It would be naive to expect any democratic form of governance to emerge in Libya in the foreseeable future. As for the NTC, Mahmoud Jibril recently announced he is quitting. "We have moved into a political struggle with no boundaries," ... "The political struggle requires finances, organization, arms and ideologies,".... "I am afraid I don't have any of this." Indeed what the western press avoids reporting is that many of these so called rebels are not even part of the NTC and are likely to become combative if the current controlling elements of the NTC try to exert power as a national governing body. Indeed even putting the NTC flag in the article is highly questionable. The African Union certainly had a lot of difficulty in recognising these people as a legitimate authority in Libya. It must not be overlooked that Libya is flooded with a lot of fools carrying weapons and a lot of them have become accustomed to making their point of view understood by shooting at those who disagree with them. Indeed any detailed analysis of the situation in Libya will reveal a picture almost diametrically opposed to that presented in the western media. It has every chance of turning into a madhouse of quasi corporate governance mixed up with combative and competing private militias and extremist groups squabbling, maneuvering assassinating and shooting at each other. Libya is now a very unstable, fractured nation with a seriously damaged infrastructure from the NATO aerial campaign and ground based conflicts and no established civil governance. Libya is most certainly not a stable and suitable destination for a traveller and is unlikely to be so for some time. I think the Libyan articles are going to be subject to ongoing manipulation and posturing by self effected propagandists for some time. Lets just try and steer it toward the interests of the traveller whenever this sort of recent editing occurs. The warningbox needs some subtle rewriting to accommodate the most recent events and the possible cessation of air and missile strikes. -- cheers --(WT-en) felix 06:31, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

I certainly agree with you - the traveller comes first, propaganda be damned. Thanks for all you do, felix. You are an indefatigable editor! All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 20:31, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

Hi Ikan,

im suprised that most of articles are lacking info, i got my info through wikipedia as noticed most of the articles have used information from wikipedia. is that ok?. Sorry im new at this--(WT-en) Anthrogex11 14:41, 10 November 2011 (EST)

Hi. Have a look here: Project:Cooperating with Wikipedia. I think this is probably the key point:

"Wikipedia and Wikivoyage have compatible licensing, and it is technically possible to share content between the two provided the license requirements are followed; in general this entails providing attribution indicating the source from which the content was taken using the Wikipedia attribution template.

However, think carefully before doing this, and discuss it with others. Wikipedia and Wikivoyage have distinct goals, and forking large amounts of content from one project to the other creates wasteful duplication, and can actually stifle the development of creative, original content. In most cases, linking from one to the other would be a better choice.

As a rule, any significant copy-pasting of Wikipedia text to Wikivoyage is not permitted, while borrowing the odd single turn of phrase when your writers' brain is stalling is allowed."

So basically, what I'd say is don't copy and paste to any large extent, but taking travel-related information from Wikipedia and paraphrasing it is fine.

You might also want to run this by folks at the Travellers' Pub. I haven't been an administrator on this site very long, and others have much more experience with this kind of issue.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 21:45, 10 November 2011 (EST)

Hi Ikan, sorry I'm new to writing for Wikis. All my work seems to have gone. I can find it in older versions, but can't understand what's going on. I see you made a comment. Was it rolled back? I tried to edit it to remove the first person as much as I could, but in some cases not possible. Thanks.

Who is this and what article is this in reference to? Please sign your posts on "Talk" pages by typing 4 tildes (the "~" key) in a row before pressing "Enter." But in any case, please explain enough of what you're talking about that I can understand what happened and where. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 13:18, 12 November 2011 (EST)

OK, I see from the History that you are Gautam Khanna, but when I click on your contributions, your edit of the Changsha article is the current version. It looks like none of your edits were reverted (deleted), and the only edit I made was to change "defend" to "defended."

In looking through your helpful contributions to the article, the only problem I'm seeing is the use of first-person language, which is not part of the style of this site. So please read Project:First person pronouns and Project:Tone. When you have time, you can also look at Project:Manual of style. In any case, your 1st-person language and accounts will eventually be deleted or edited by someone, but you posted a lot of good content, and I thank you for that. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 13:25, 12 November 2011 (EST)

Hi Ikan, regarding that recent MB Resorts edit...

Here are some of the other appearances of the contact number from that listing you just reverted due to the excessive Capitalisations. I thought I recognised the number and so I checked in my brief notes on the articles and other web listings relating to the Bengal area that have the sticky finger markings of these characters all over them

• Bakkhali Hotel Amarabati 8100291011
• Mandarmani / Tajpu 91 33 8100291011 from Hotel Sonarbangla Resorts
• Digha‎ Hotel Dolphin 8100291011
• Digha‎ Rojana Beach 91 33 8100291011

The URL hotelinmandarmani.in is just a bait job as well.

I think it is reasonable to assume that (WT-en) M.B.Resorts is not playing the game straight. I have looked him over and this single edit has been the only activity with that account so far. Seeing as Mr Ryan likes to deal with these nefarious sorts of things I will leave him a note to have a look at this message here, I assume he might like to spam block the URL and that tel number, though I thought that number had already been dealt with when I raised it months ago after doing those serious sweep outs of the Bengali articles. I do not have the necessary buttons myself so I cannot send him to the bottom of the sea to visit the sea shells.-- (WT-en) felix 07:14, 15 November 2011 (EST)

There are a lot of these kinds of spammers/scammers. And thanks for being so vigilant and for tirelessly detouting and reformatting so many articles - you are a gem! (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 13:10, 18 November 2011 (EST)

Hi Ikan - I restored the IATA article that you speedy deleted to put it through the normal VFD process. While it's something that will almost certainly be deleted, it looks like it was created in good faith and there were three articles that linked to that subject, so using the normal VFD process seems like the right approach. Please understand that I don't think you did anything wrong - I just think this is (barley) enough of a borderline case that it makes sense to follow the normal procedure for deletion. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:25, 18 November 2011 (EST)

Thanks for the heads-up. All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 13:08, 18 November 2011 (EST)

like your welcome message to new users so much better than the standard one.. --(WT-en) Inas 02:06, 28 November 2011 (EST)

Thanks. I liked one you posted recently. Glad I was able to inspire you! (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 04:58, 28 November 2011 (EST)

Hi Ikan. I'm a Brazilian user, and mostly act on the Portuguese version of Wikivoyage, but stay alert in English as well, I've come to love and support the Wiktravel standards and format. Maybe you should check out the recent edits about El Salvador, one user who's most likely a publicist for the Tortuga Verde resort did a lot of entries that smell of toutism. Perhaps I'm a little high strung about it then I decided it's best to ask expert advice about it. Let's keep Wikivoyage up where it deserves! All the best. 189.6.38.148 18:50, 9 December 2011 (EST)

Hello. I have been looking at those entries and made some conservative edits. I am troubled by the spamming of the same information to several guides, as well as the listing a single resort in more than one place, which is forbidden, and which you were completely right to revert. Thank you for your help, and I hope you stick around and continue to help us patrol those articles.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 19:04, 9 December 2011 (EST)

Hi, i just edited the bucharest hostels list, i added my hostel and removed 2 other hostels that have been closed 2 years ago, namely east hostel and vila helga. I noticed you reverted the edits. I would like then to just add my hostel, and leave the other 2 there , even if they dont exit. Could i do that? Thanks 89.122.73.175

Hi. I just added your IP to keep things straight. It's customary to sign your name in "Talk" pages by typing 4 tildes (the "~" key) in a row before pressing "Enter," and it's also customary to start a new section at the bottom of the page.

All that aside, it sounds like your edits were totally valid; all you needed to do was explain them in an edit summary before you did them. Go ahead and put up your listing, but avoid first person, and redelete the listings for the closed hostels. Indicate in your edit summary "added listing, deleting listings for closed hostels."

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 19:21, 19 December 2011 (EST)

Nevermind; I deleted those listings. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 19:22, 19 December 2011 (EST)

Hi Ikan, Run your eyes over this group of edits, I would appreciate your POV. http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Vang_Vieng&diff=1801589&oldid=1799657 -- (WT-en) felix 14:59, 20 December 2011 (EST)

Hi, Felix. The thing that jumps out at me is the allegations about the police. But I have no personal knowledge about the behavior of the police in Vang Vieng, so I'm in no position to offer an opinion. Otherwise, "Politically incorrect jokes are a must" is a strange thing to put in a "Sleep" listing but nothing I care all that much about.

What jumps out at you?

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:29, 20 December 2011 (EST)

I feel prety much the same I guess. I was going to leave it as was but thought it might be good to get a second opinion as it is a bit odd. I also have no direct knowledge regarding the local plods. I guess it would not be a worlds first instance if there was some local funny business going on. I will just leave it I reckon. Sounds like eating rice porridge there has a few worrying issues, I will bear that in mind if I am there and feel a bit hungry for some bubur. It also seems that the guy he is most disturbed about works for the immigration services anyway, and not the police. I think it is the tourists that would have me more worried than the police in Vang Vieng, the place seems a bit unhinged. -- hope you are keeping well... oh BTY I did a little tidy up on Pedasi and did a listing edit on the apartment listing on the discussion page. --cheers - (WT-en) felix 16:49, 20 December 2011 (EST)

Yes, I saw that. Thank you.

If you have a chance, I'd also like some help with M'Hamid. I posted for help in the Travellers' Guide, but hardly anyone seems to be reading that, lately. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:55, 20 December 2011 (EST)

• I have gone through the listing of camel and 4x4 tours and made some suggestions on the Discussion page. I think we might need to do a bit of a spring cleaning there. I think you would be quite justified in making some bold changes. I am uncertain about the listings as a whole, I guess as it seems to be such a feature of that town then it deserves such a dominating section in the article. The section stands out as the article is otherwise quite undeveloped, makes it lok a bit like a listing venue fo various camel and 4x4 trek operators, some of which should probably be cleaned out per general WT guidelines. Have a look over my Remove/Retain comments and if you agree then I think we should just do it. Certainly I would support you in that action.-- (WT-en) felix 08:03, 21 December 2011 (EST)

Pisa article. "If these are really sights, they should be moved back to "See," but if they were "mythic" educational institutions, they would be imaginary!". Quite right to move them as you did, I was so amused by the mythic educational institutions" I could not bring myself to do it. Leaning towers and mythic educational institutions have a certain symbiosis when appraised in the middle of the night. I guess really I should have fixed it up when I did the small tidy up there last night but the outbreak of serial walkingstreethostel edit reverts sort of distracted me. -- (WT-en) felix 08:03, 21 December 2011 (EST)

do i have a reason for removing my listing from manhattan? 59.182.173.177 04:16, 7 January 2012 (EST)tarasnake

What listing? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 04:21, 7 January 2012 (EST)

I have seen your discussion on Jjtk talk page. Only as an admin the rollback leads to automatic patrolling. All non-Admin user need to click seperate for patrolling. (WT-en) Jc8136 06:06, 16 January 2012 (EST)

I see. Thanks for explaining. I had forgotten that rollback is an administrative function and that non-administrators have to revert. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 06:31, 16 January 2012 (EST)

I'm not a big grammar person, but regarding this revert, "...Secretary of State, William H. Seward (1801-1872), who...", while the second comma might be OK, the first one is questionable. For example, you wouldn't write "action by President, Barack Obama, who...". In any case, not a big deal, but the English student in me wanted to defend my grammar knowledge :) -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 01:39, 20 January 2012 (EST)

You're right: I misread it to say "the Secretary of State, William H. Seward." I'll revert my edit. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:45, 20 January 2012 (EST)

Hi, I changed my remark about a EU founded road passing the house of the minister of tourism to a more neutral sentence myself. Knowing the corruption in Romania it does not seem to be a coincedence when she has a house there. Especially when driving on the road you wonder why they ever built it. At the other hand I only heard about this house from a local. I would like to make this statement only when the house is realy there and some more proof of corruption can be found. I would like to re-undo your action.

--(WT-en) Bfwelter 11:08, 20 January 2012 (EST)

Go right ahead. Thanks for the explanation.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 17:48, 20 January 2012 (EST)

It's all written in Turkish and lately we had a couple of turkish articles that don't belong here. Is it worth to keep or not? Regards, (WT-en) Jc8136 08:43, 24 January 2012 (EST)

Hi. I moved your post to a new section at the bottom of this talk page in order to be able to read it and reply. Someone deleted the Turkish-language article in question in the interim. Any new article in wikivoyage.org/wiki/en that's not written in English should be deleted, and any edits not in English should be reverted. There are Wikivoyage sites in other languages, where a Turkish-language article might be relevant, but I suspect this article was probably advertising spam.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 00:12, 25 January 2012 (EST)

Incidently, on top of being in Turkish, that article was a non-travel-related information page about the state of wind power generation in Turkey. (WT-en) texugo 00:27, 25 January 2012 (EST)

I assumed it was spam. I always assume anything article posted in a non-English language is spam, and that's been true with languages I understand, too. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 00:32, 25 January 2012 (EST)

I'm not sure why you have removed [5] all the bicycle tours in Bangkok? They are a value-added activity. Cycling on your own in Bangkok is virtually impossible, as it it is incredibly hazardous. A cycling trip would definitely need to be done in some kind of tour. --(WT-en) Globe-trotter 04:00, 25 January 2012 (EST)

In that case, the listings should be restored but have to be realphabetized and some have to be detouted. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 04:21, 25 January 2012 (EST)

Hi Ikan K, sorry I only noticed your post on the pub page well after I put the comments on the La Paz discussion page. I had been watching it for a while and thought about trying to give you some support but backed away as I could not readily identify a way to assist. Plus our electricity is on and off so often now that it is like a disco light show. It is normally bad here but there is also a cyclone not to far away and things have going a bit crazy with trees going over and killing people and ships capsizing or threatening to do so from the ferocious waves. Accordingly our internet connection here comes on and off rather frequently. I hope my comments on the La Paz page do assist. It is certainly a difficult and sometimes vexing problem and this particular listing although it appears quite legitimate still bears some issues with our understanding of the prevailing policies. Even with tour guides, some of them may be highly qualified and have something literally unique to contribute to a travellers experience that is otherwise unavailable. Very hard for us to determine that, although sometimes the 'can the traveller do it on their own' aspect will assist with that one. I think you explained it al very well on the La Paz Talk page but equally I can understand the frustration and POV of the person wishing to list his friend who provides the tuition services, especially as she was listed previously without event. Cheers -- (WT-en) felix 13:13, 28 January 2012 (EST)

Felix: Be safe! And thanks, as always, for your thoughtful perspective. All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 18:13, 28 January 2012 (EST)

The two tour guides, one of them a driver, listed in the Do section seem to be in conflict with the general policies on listing tour guides. They do not seem to be doing anything that requires a permit or restricted areas access and do not appear to be taking anyone to a place that they could not go to themselves. I do not though that one of them is described as providing "regular treks in the Northern Luzon, but also some extreme activities". this is not really defined very clearly though. He is described as "accredited" but it is not explained by who he is 'accredited' or what it is that he is accredited to do. I think I would be inclined to delete them both, or move them to the Talk page and leave them there for discussion.-- (WT-en) felix 13:22, 28 January 2012 (EST)

I was hoping I could include you in an ongoing discussion group for WT admins, to which I realized you are not subscribed. If you'd like to join in, please email me, and I will send the Google Groups invite to the email of your choosing. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 16:49, 9 February 2012 (EST)

It looks like I can't email you unless I want to make my email address visible to all users here. If you can see a way around that, please let me know. All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 02:10, 10 February 2012 (EST)

I guess the best way would be to enable it, send me an email, and then disable it. By the way, enabling email won't actually make your email visible to the internet. It just makes it possible to send you an email (and, of course, if you reply to that, your email will be made clear to the recipient). --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:22, 10 February 2012 (EST)

Thanks for fixing that typo, I think my eyes need testing. -- (WT-en) felix 08:48, 23 February 2012 (EST)

You do a great job, and it's easy to miss things like that. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 15:02, 23 February 2012 (EST)

Hello Ivan,

After I edited my talk page recently, you reverted it with a note stating: "You are not allowed to remove content from your user talk page". I believe this may be in error. The closest policy I can find is: "In general, conversations aren't deleted from talk pages but are instead archived when they are old or no longer relevant. To archive discussions simply create a new page such as User talk:Mypage/Archive and copy the old discussions to it."

If I'm in error, please direct me to the appropriate policy. Thanks!

In the mean time, I have gone ahead and moved it to an archive page as discussed in the policy.

My name isn't Ivan, first of all. But archiving is not the same as deleting. Every talk page is a record of discussions, and can't just be deleted unilaterally. There is a Votes for deletion procedure for proposed deletions of pages that aren't completely obvious candidates for speedy deletion. And I'm unconvinced the content you deleted is no longer relevant. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 22:54, 26 February 2012 (EST)

So your argument is that discussion that's less than a month old is "old or no longer relevant"? Very weak argument. I disagree. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 23:22, 26 February 2012 (EST)

Hi IK, good spotting. I did not even notice the listings were out of place, indeed I think I probably just went there to patrol an edit and got caught up in a little tidy up while I was there but did not pay any attention to the relative hierarchical status of the article. Those listings should be moved out but I do not know the area well enough to confidently move any listings into the correct sub-articles. BTY have a look over La Paz and make sure that you approve. I came in after the listing was restored and did a mild article-wide tidy up and left a welcome note on the contributors Talk page thanking them for their efforts as I noticed that neither of us had done that. I assume you are comfortable with the outcome. I will try and keep an eye on that article as well following the recent changes to those language schools. --Salam ke mr ikan-- (WT-en) felix 05:00, 3 March 2012 (EST).

I'm not familiar with Lima, either. I'll have a look at the La Paz article within a couple of days.

Yang ikhlas,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:34, 3 March 2012 (EST)

On the off chance that you haven't heard the "please do not feed the trolls" mantra that is standard on wikis, it's generally best to pay vandals as little attention as possible. User talk page messages such as this one are often just enough to let them know that they've gotten under someone's skin, and may be enough to encourage them to continue. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 19:07, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

I hear you. I posted that as a record, so that we can remember to block the user for a longer amount of time next time, but I can do that in a matter-of-fact way next time or just post nothing. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 19:56, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

You'll see any previous blocks if you go to re-block a user (for example), even after the blocks have expired. Makes it easy to avoid other acknowledgement. -- (WT-en) D. Guillaime 21:01, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

I didn't realize that. Thanks for letting me know. I will act accordingly. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 21:27, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks for clarifying - I figured there was a reason for the talk page posting, but wanted to note the "do not feed" advice just in case. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:22, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

I'm glad you did. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:05, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Hi Ikan, saw you removed an external link to www.nuweibabeach.com Instead of deleting a useful link, you could have moved it/made sure it was in the right format? There is hardly any info on Nuweiba and what is on Wikivoyage is extremely outdated, so I thought the above mentioned link might be useful to the audience of Wikivoyage. But if you think Wikivoyage is better off without useful info, that's okay for me too. Regards, Ali

Hi Ilkan, saw you removed an external link to www.nuweibabeach.com Instead of deleting a useful link, you could have moved it/made sure it was in the right format? There is hardly any info on Nuweiba and what is on Wikivoyage is extremely outdated, so I thought the above mentioned link might be useful to the audience of Wikivoyage. But if you think Wikivoyage is better off without useful info, that's okay for me too. Regards, Ali

Hi, Ali. As I wrote in my editing summary, which you can see at [6], portals cannot be linked on Wikivoyage, per the policy detailed at this link: xl, and specifically Project:External links#What not to link to. If you would like to suggest changes to that policy, the place to have that discussion is at Project:External links. I don't think a suggestion to change the external links policy would be successful, however, because information portals are competitors with this guide, and I won't even bring up likely responses to any suggestion of allowing listings of hotel reservation or ticket purchasing portals - but again, discuss them in that talk page if you feel strongly, because that's the place where decisions can be made. Under current guidelines, it simply is not possible to list a portal. However, useful, relevant, and non-touty information on that portal can be summarized or paraphrased and put into the Nuweiba article.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 19:35, 13 April 2012 (EDT)

The reference to iSpot was intended to supplement the wikivoyageers to Vientiane as it is a free information center. It is not a Tour Agency or Operator. If not on grounds of Tour, what would be the nature of the revert? Thanks!

Hi. Those were the grounds. If it's really not selling anything, it's probably fine to list it, but you'll get more visibility for the discussion of why it's OK if you post a message on Talk:Vientiane. And when you do, please sign it by typing 4 tildes (the "`" key) in a row.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 02:36, 20 April 2012 (EDT)

I may have been too hasty in my last post. xl should be looked at, too. Post to Talk:Vientiane, and let's discuss it. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 02:49, 20 April 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, will do

I removed the permanent block on this account as it doesn't look like a bot to me - there weren't any URLs on the user page, and the edits weren't done immediately after user registration, which are both usually good "tells" for a bot. However, a temp block might be warranted if the user continues to upload advertising logos and put tour advertising on the user page. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 01:59, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

OK, let's see. But I think this user will be a continual problem. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 02:15, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

Feel free to use shorter term blocks if that's the case - my only concern is that infinite blocks are a fairly harsh measure, and are only meant to be used in rare cases, such as when there isn't a real user operating the account. On a related note, thanks yet again for all of your patrolling - you have far more tolerance for reviewing edits than I do! -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:04, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

Certainly. And I do understand that, given any doubt, it is best not to block an account permanently. So I appreciate your decision. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 14:27, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

Hi Ikan, We are a car rental service providers, we are not typical aggregators. We take care of end to end car rental service in 75+ cities in India to make tourist's journey easy and convenient,We own the customers (We provide the service; if any issue customer can directly contact us)hence I am not violating any rules.Look forward to hearing from you. Thank you. - Unsigned Nehapb

Dear Nehapb:

I hope you don't mind that I took the liberty of creating a new section at the bottom of this page and moving your post there, for the sake of easier reading.

This is from the FAQ on your website:

"What is taxiGUIDE.in?

taxiGUIDE.in is an online car rental booking service currently available across 75 cities in India. Our service enables customers to search for car rental/hire options in terms of operators, vehicle type, price points and then make an online reservation by making an advance payment."

"Why can’t I book from an operator directly?

Your favourite operator in your home city may or may not have operations in other cities. By using taxiGUIDE.in, you get access to a cross section of operators across cities, vehicles and prices giving you the freedom of choice."

Whether you are a typical booking service or not, I cannot judge, but you are very clearly and avowedly a booking service, and because of that, you may not be linked or have listings on this site. If you would like to argue that Wikivoyage's policy on booking services ill serves travellers in some way and should be changed, you are welcome to go to Project:External links and start a new thread at the bottom of the page. If you do, please sign your post, as is customary on talk pages, by typing the tilde key (~) 4 times in a row before pressing "Enter" at the end of your post. A discussion might be good for the site, so I would encourage you to set forth your arguments there.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 06:17, 7 May 2012 (EDT)

Thank You.

Hi, just wanted to let you know I just found out I was the second person trying to add the Utrecht Free Tours to wikivoyage. I just red the guidelines on activity listings and will try to write something that complies to it. We are definately offering an experience that adds somethings to visiting Utrecht, and we are 100% non profit (even the tips are used to invest in a better tour). I will try so suggest that it is nice to take a free tour in Utrecht without referring to OUR free tour. IF that is not right, please help me in finding out what IS right and what is the difference between the Utrecht Free Tour and the Riga Free Tour [7] thnx, Jasper

Hi, Jasper. Your proposed edit sounds fine to me, as long as it's a comment and not an entry, but it's possible some other volunteer editors may not agree, in which case it would be best to discuss this in Talk:Utrecht. The Riga listing shouldn't be there, either, but please understand that these kinds of edits are often put back just as quickly as they are removed, so at any particular time, you may see a listing that shouldn't be there. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 17:38, 7 May 2012 (EDT)

Hi Ikan, I am very unconvinced concerning this content introduced into the Bali article. I have edited the recent reinstatement of the content however I note it was previously removed by Ryan (due to touting) and has returned, still with a touty emphasis. I have not seen the publication so it is difficult to assess the appropriateness of the content in a travellers context. I have left a note on Ryan's talk page as well as yours as he has been involved in corrective edits to Anand Ashram related content. I am also a little curious about (WT-en) Adisucipta and obviously the new contributions in the reading section of the Bali article raises the question of who (WT-en) Adisucipta and (WT-en) Anand Ashram are, and if indeed they are the same contributor. We have both left a note on Anand Ashram's talk page, doesn't seem to have had much effect though. I have also recently been editing Anand Ashram content in the Jakarta, Ubud and Bogor articles. -- (WT-en) felix 08:20, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

That edit caught my eye, too. Since I don't know the book, I took no action. Your edits are good. I would observe that it's because of these kinds of sometimes self-serving edits that listing suggested reading material can become a problem. It may become most appropriate to delete the entire section, though I don't yet recommend that "throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater" action. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:18, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

Followup: Look at Wrh2's latest editing summary: [8] (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:20, 9 May 2012 (EDT)\

Appropriate action by Wrh2 I think and it has my full support, that contributor/s is rather active in a 'promotional' sense at present, I hope they calm down soon. --cheers-- (WT-en) felix 22:37, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

"Free, but donations are accepted" whoops, thanks for spotting that, I only just noticed your corrective edit. -- (WT-en) felix 23:58, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

Regarding your help with the Can Tho page. We appreciate your help in regards to making us aware about links and the site policies as well as help on other parts. In regards to content, could we use the discussion page though? It would be nice, if you do not delete the content about free student tours. We are working on the site as part of a student project and constantly add content at the moment. It would be great, if you could help with improving the text itself as well. We are all non-native English speakers and would be happy if someone can contribute here as well. For the moment we would like to keep the tours inside. If you have any deeper concerns, could you please discuss with us on the talk page? Thank you -(WT-en) Mario

Hi, Mario. I appreciate the content you're putting up, and I will certainly have a look from time to time and see if any of it needs editing. However, I cannot control what other volunteer editors do, and the precedent has been that listings for tours, regardless of whether they're free or not, are reverted in every article where they are placed, in view of the tour policy. If you would like to argue for more exceptions to the restrictions on listing tours, I would recommend that you post your argument in Project:Activity listings. However, before you do that, I would suggest that you read this particular discussion a bit: [9]

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 02:00, 10 May 2012 (EDT)

Hello Ikan Keke,

I understand the guideline and I agree: Tours should offer something as a supplement, rather than a replacement for Wikivoyage guides. They should count as an activity available at a destination.

The particularity of the student tours are that they give people the chance to meet locals in their environment and apart from the usual tourist paths - Wikivoyage could not offer that and other tours do not offer this here. Visitors have the chance to meet English speaking locals, something not so easy here normally. As written in the explanation, visitors will also have the chance to get info about current developments, that would not be possible to cover in in Wikivoyage or other guides. Additionally, the tour allows people to access places with the guides, that are not usually available to tourists, e.g. manufacture area of tailors or a meet up with monks. We should probably clarify this in the description.

Thank you for your support and help to understand the working of the site better.

(WT-en) Mario 02:34, 10 May 2012 (EDT)

Again, I think you should be discussing the policy on tours at Project:Activity listings, because the same argument could be made for free tours in any other place, yet current practice is to revert (delete) such listings. If policy is to be changed, the change will have to be site-wide. I do see where you're going, though: If you can show that your particular tour adds so much value that it's unusual, that might engender a different reaction, even without a site-wide change of policy. It might be advisable to discuss that in Talk:Can Tho, though, in order to involve more people and reach a consensus. Sorry to sound so bureaucratic. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 04:34, 10 May 2012 (EDT)

Thanks for the welcome, Ikan! Hopefully I'll be able to make some valuable contributions around here. I noticed on your talk page you want to visit some cities with amazing mosques. May I recommend Dhaka? Haha, I may be biased, but Wikipedia does give it the title of the "City of Mosques". Enjoy your travels! (WT-en) JamesA ^>talk 05:09, 14 May 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, James. Yeah, Dhaka could be an interesting place to visit. So many places to go, so little time! :-) (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 06:07, 14 May 2012 (EDT)

I'm admittedly not a grammar person, but your revert in the Mogadishu article seems to be reverting three changes that look correct to me. Since I was the one who marked that edit as patrolled, please let me know if I missed something. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 19:29, 24 May 2012 (EDT)

I think I was experiencing some technical glitches on Wikivoyage earlier. I know there was another article in which I deleted spam links, and the "edit" view showed that they were gone, but even after I cleared my cache, the regular view was showing all the links I had deleted. So I will try to fix the two obvious errors. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:49, 25 May 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! As noted, I'm not much with the words, but that edit struck me as being OK so I appreciate the confirmation. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 10:55, 25 May 2012 (EDT)

As an FYI since your edit comment indicated you had questions about fixing page moves, if you ever have to remove page move vandalism, go to the Move Log and there is an "undo" button next to each entry. Note that if a page is moved multiple times (A → B → C) then you need to "undo" the move in the reverse order (C → B → A). -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 10:55, 11 June 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, Ryan. All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 23:29, 11 June 2012 (EDT)

So that would be an unrequired school of fish someone has called up from the depths :)

Might call for a speargun to cull out the bottom feeders and assorted miscreants.

I have voiced my support for an editing lock down, hope it assists to strengthen your own comments and advice. cheers--(WT-en) felix 22:45, 13 June 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, Felix. Seekor ikan cukuplah. :-) (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 23:02, 13 June 2012 (EDT)

Benar, terlalu banyak ikan nakal, aku harapan semoga sukses mancing -- (WT-en) felix 23:22, 13 June 2012 (EDT)

Terima kasih, Felix. Sedaplah makan ikan... :-) (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 00:07, 14 June 2012 (EDT)

Hey Ivan. Could you please delete JamesA/Bangladesh? I've moved it into my userspace, after accidentally creating it in the mainspace. Thanks. (WT-en) JamesA ^>talk 10:15, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

Hi, James. My name isn't Ivan. :-) I'll poke around your user page and see if I understand things clearly. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:55, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

Someone already put in a redirect. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:56, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

Apologies for calling you a Malaysian fish (and mispelling it with a "v")! Yes, it was automatically turned into a redirect when I moved it, but wasn't sure if redirects from the mainspace to the userspace were appropriate. If there's no issue, it can be left as-is. Thanks, (WT-en) JamesA ^>talk 03:14, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

Ikan Kekek is a Malaysian fish, so no issue there. :-) (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:59, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

First of all thank you for your time. I originally had some posts taken down by you on June 15th I think. It was my first time posting so could see my mistakes based on your feedback which I appreciated.

Today I posted again for my restaurant (Mexican Cafe) in a manner that I thought was very acceptable. But I do not see it? Wondering if you had any feedback.

I also have a night club that I added into the "Drink" section of the page. I believe I can see where you took down this post in my history. It looks like it was replacing another location. The reason I replaced that location was because that club no longer exists in the city.

Please let me know any feed back so I can get it right. I don't want my account to be blocked.

Again the restaurant I felt was perfectly fine but don't see it listed. Feeback?

The Club AQ I see you said not to take down another location, but the one I did no longer exists.

Thank you in advance!

Patrick

Hi, Patrick. Have read through don't tout? My editing summary for my latest reversion of your edits was as follows:

"Deleted per don't tout, etc. One listing only - no other mention - and never substitute your listing for another's."

Is that unclear? You can post a single listing for a business; you cannot mention it anywhere else. Had that been your first edit, I might have tried fixing it myself, but I want you to read and understand don't tout, and I don't think you've read it yet. Read it, and if you still have questions afterwards, ask.

As for a place that no longer exists, yes, of course you can delete such a listing and should, but make sure to write "closed" - or something similar - in your editing summary that makes it clear why you deleted or overwrote a listing. Unexplained deletions are typically reverted. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 17:45, 27 June 2012 (EDT)

It's been about three weeks since I've gone to Special:RecentChanges and seen "Ikan Kekek" in the listings. With any luck you've been able to fulfill your plans of returning to Indonesia or are otherwise engaged in fun activities, and hopefully we'll see you again soon around these parts, or at the new site (if/when that happens). -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 23:13, 24 July 2012 (EDT)

Sure. The trip to Indonesia didn't happen this summer, but I'm just back from almost a month total in California and Hawaii, a truly marvelous trip! Thanks for thinking of me, and best wishes to you! Aloha, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:31, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

Welcome home, and good to hear you had a nice trip away--(WT-en) felix 19:23, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

Hi Ikan,

One of my IPs was blocked for editing due to "Spambot" reason (no idea why, but I am certainly not a Spambot =)). Could you do the unblocking for me? The Block ID is #10618.

Best regards, --(WT-en) Edsonaoki 03:27, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Hi. I've just read up on this. Apparently, you and Jnich99 were both using the same IP also used by a spambot, Hdfs9f2qb, whom I blocked. And believe me, you'd consider what it posted to be spam; just have a look: [10]. I just reblocked that user, but unchecked "Automatically block the last IP address used by this user, and any subsequent IP addresses they try to edit from," which seemed to be causing problems for you, Jnich99, and possibly other good-faith users. Sorry for the unpleasant experience.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:07, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Thanks for the explanation. No great harm done. The various recent software upgrades certainly don't seem to have halted the march of the spambots. (WT-en) Jnich99 05:28, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

What upgrades? :-) I'm no techie, but I do know on an empirical basis that the spamming has gotten worse and more difficult to fight. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:33, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

Hello Ikan Kekek and welcome to Wikivoyage!

You sly old fox! You seem to be conspiring with sundry disreputable Janitors to achieve multiple "OrgasmsWelcomes" (huge grin):

Wikivoyage is a project with the aim to create a free, up-to-date, and reliable world-wide travel guide, and it is based on an association with the same name: Wikivoyage e.V.

To get a clearer idea about Wikivoyage and how it works, have a look at the community policies and the FAQ section. It may also be useful to read the Copyleft page where you can find more information about our license. The part of Wikivoyage called Wikivoyage General helps Wikivoyagers to organize and discuss language independent topics. If you want to find more information related to potential language versions, have a look at the language version discussions page. "How to start a new language version" will help you plunge forward.

If you understand their languages, it might be interesting to have a look at the German or the Italian language versions of Wikivoyage, as those are the long established language versions and there you will have an opportunity to discover what the project and its articles look like. The launch of the English Language version is imminent. The images that are used within our articles are at Wikivoyage Shared.

Our policies, guidelines and Manual of style may be a bit different to other Wiki's you've worked on.

If you need more information or you have questions that have not been answered in the help pages, please do not hesitate to write a post in the Travellers' Pub or to ask me directly.

--W. Frank^e-mail_talk 02:35, 24 September 2012 (CEST)

Hi Ikan, hope you are doing fine. You have not been around for some time, so this might be interesting http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/WMF_Migration/New_policies/Cross-identification_of_accounts Also we try to get the new policies here implemented, so any helpful hand is appreciated. Have a great weekend, Jc8136 (talk) 12:46, 5 October 2012 (CEST)

Hi, Jc. I'm not a techie, so I couldn't help with the implementation of this kind of policy. Are there any other new discussions I should be aware of? Thanks, and I hope you also have a great weekend. (WV-en) Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:53, 5 October 2012 (CEST)

Ikan, there is an misunderstanding. The policy is already implemented and made. If you would like to merge your accounts from WT and WV here, then you solely need to add your account name on the bottom of the list [11]. It's great because it imports your old WT history if you want, too. Regards, Jc8136 (talk) 13:06, 5 October 2012 (CEST)

I accidentally deleted my WT history before I left WT, so that wouldn't help. Oh well. :-) (WV-en) Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:07, 5 October 2012 (CEST)

I saw that my undeleted WT history was imported here, so I did apply to merge my accounts. Thanks again, Jc. (WV-en) Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:26, 14 October 2012 (CEST)

Thanks for the welcome back, Ikan! And thanks for pointing out the external links page - with all the listings now doing frontlinking, I thought that was going to be the new standard here. Then I found this. Well, back to fixing my stuff up! PerryPlanet (talk) 18:21, 12 October 2012 (CEST)

Hi Ikan - I've merged your (new) Wikivoyage account with your old account, so this account should include all content contributions you've ever made. I've also moved your user page and talk page. You were somewhat of a test case, so please report any problems. Provided everything worked as expected then the same process will probably be used with other user accounts. -- Ryan • (talk) • 20:52, 13 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

at my page --Cyrfaw (Talk) 07:40, 18 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your warm welcome Ikan Kekek :) I see Wikivoyage has recently been added to the Wikimedia Foundation and now is itself a Wikimedia project. I am very happy to be a part of such place. I originally started on Wikipedia and have continued to spread out on other wiki's like Wikisource, Wikibooks, etc. and now Wikivoyage! This looks like a very interesting project related to travel and tourism which has one of the most reliable world-wide travel guides that can be found on the web. I look forward to be a dedicated long term member and a positive contributor to Wikivoyage. Best Regards! TheGeneralUser (talk) 20:01, 21 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Wonderful. I look forward to working with you and reading your contributions in the future. All the best, Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:05, 22 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

May I compliment you on your much clearer wording?

I think many Asian cultures employ these indirect circumlocutions because they think it is more likely to preserve harmony.

(Every time I look at Abbrev. it grates that we firstly recommend something like "These abbreviations should be uniform and consistent and generally should not include full stops or periods" in the lead or nutshell and then go on to say "Some country abbreviations include periods while others do not: "United States of America" should be abbreviated as U.S. with periods, not U.S.A., USA, or US" when the latter abbreviation is used by some (but certainly not all) US departments and agencies...).

Happy New Year! -- Alice^✉ 19:44, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the positive feedback. We argue about more or less small or moderately important points in the "Talk" pages here, but it pays for us to remember that we're all really trying to do the same thing, which is to make this site better for readers. Have a great 2013, and enjoy the warm weather you have at this time - and every other time of year - in Singapore. It's cold here in New York! :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:23, 30 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Sometimes it is very difficult not being able to see faces and hear tones of voice. I need to try very hard to be tolerant of Peter's boorishness - I'm sure I'd probably find him very attractive if I met him face to face - but it really is very tough trying to ignore the continual sniping about me being a puppet of a German friend of mine that lives in Glasgow. Especially when both Frank and I have already established our bona fides to Fred Bauder and Jimmy Wales on Wikipedia all those years ago and I personally have offered to appear in person with my passports and driving licences to a named admin that promises to keep my personal details confidential - plus anyone with Check user rights can see that I don't usually edit from the continent of Europe. By the way, my work takes me all over the Pacific Rim (but often to and from Oz and NZ) and I'm down under right now and won't be back to spend much time in Singapore until March. -- Alice^✉ 00:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi there and happy new year! Thanks for your efforts at WikiVoyage. Regards --cyrfaw (talk) 09:25, 31 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, Cyfraw. Same to you! All the best, Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:48, 31 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

You're welcome! Tony (talk) 06:02, 12 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi, are you still here? I clarified my Main Page edit request at Talk:Main_Page#Mobile_version. :-) Rogerhc (talk) 05:52, 14 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, but I'm having trouble seeing things clearly in that dense thicket of HTML on the main page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:53, 14 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Okay, answered here. Rogerhc (talk) 06:01, 14 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for helping. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:03, 14 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

[12] Travelpleb (talk) 09:59, 14 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. Things sure have changed since I was in school. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:01, 14 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Ok, now that you explained, it's clearer to me. On the other side, we should have to be aware that the vast majority of en.wikivoyage readers are not English natives; and, by any means, "aggressive" in such a transcultural context is semantically conveying the idea of snatching a woman's arm in the street. Which is naturally false, especially when you consider the incidence of rapes compared to apparently calmer cities like Florence (which, between you and me, has the highest rapes' incidence in Italy, followed by Milan...)...Neapolitans consider getting along with a woman like a proof of their courting capabilities, so being "aggressive" in such a trans-cultural meaning would be cause of shame for them. So, having understood your meaning, I would rather use "persistent" or "insisted". Ah, probably you understood I AM a Neapolitan and live in town, so I can speak about courting with some insider view... :-) --Ferdinando Scala (talk) 10:53, 16 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Your point is well taken. Can we agree on "somewhat persistent flirting"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:01, 16 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Sorry if I didn't answer earlier, I was working and then flying back home. Your new version is ok, thank you for your kind understanding. Btw, I often travel to Turkey for business, and first time I read your nickname I thought you were a Turkish...thenafter I read the history of your life, quite fascinating. I'm also a global traveller, so it will be great to share views with you in the future. And, in case you come to Naples, I will be happy to show you some special places. :-) --Ferdinando Scala (talk) 21:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I'll let you know. I loved visiting Naples. :-) Distintamente, Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:51, 16 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi! I have seen that you worked a bit on the Malaysia article. We tried to get Johor into a better shape for OtBP but it contains to much info. Felix and i tried to work it but another helping hand would be great, if you have some spare time. Regards, jan (talk) 08:25, 17 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi, Jan. I've never been to Johor Bahru, but I'll have a look when I have a chance. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I am receiving multiple email about some minor edits I made asking me to post a reply to confirm that I am not a spambot..is this the correct place to do so?

You already made that clear. I was asking you to respond in your user talk page. Did you read the messages I left for you there, and do you understand them? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:00, 17 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi there, I change the deletion template from {{vfd}} to {{speedy}} because it is lacking information and it looks like a non-sense article. If you don't belive me you can undo my edit. Thanks! --cyrfaw (talk) 11:10, 18 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

not done - Never mind - The page is already deleted since it has lack of information. Thanks! --cyrfaw (talk) 05:09, 19 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I noticed. And that's certainly fine with me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Good, thanks! --cyrfaw (talk) 05:15, 19 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

You're welcome! Daniel Case (talk) 05:18, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I restored Il Cena'colo to the restaurant section minus the Zagat ref (didn't know about that rule, thanks). It's not the only one of those restaurants west of the river. Daniel Case (talk) 02:28, 13 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Why does it belong in Hudson Valley, rather than Newburgh? The standard practice is to list restaurants in city guides, whenever possible, and to list them in regional guides only when there is no other place to list them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Oh, OK. The article had a very broad "Eat" section; since it just said "Since CIA is in the region there are a lot of good restaurants", I decided to list some because you can't just pick any one at random, even if the chef did go there, and assume it'll be great. I suppose that section, in regional pages, is just for particular regional food treats? (yes it is, I see now). I suppose in this case snickerdoodles would be about the only thing I can think of. Daniel Case (talk) 18:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

It's fine to mention that the CIA is in the region, and it could be OK to mention a few other places by name, but readers should be directed to guides like Newburgh for full listings of restaurants that are in particular towns. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:14, 18 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

I blanked it because

Don't tout. Wikivoyage is a site for travelers, not for marketing, and promotional listings will be removed. This guideline identifies ways for businesses to contribute constructively. In particular, please do not ever add more than one listing for a business. —The preceding comment was added by User:Manoli (talk • contribs)

I just did a lot of detouting. Look now. Deleting the entire sleep section is overly extreme, in my view. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:49, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi Ikan If everybody will leave advertisings for some villas or apartments, the sleep section will be filled with advertising spam. The whole sleep section is a copy and paste product. The same you will find here:

http://www.todaytourism.com/travel-guides/Zakynthos-travel-guide.html?section=Sleep

and under other URL's 

For my opinion seems like you want to protect somebodys intrests in zakynthian tourism.

Please lets stop spamming. Have a look for Exemple to wikivoyage "Mallorca" - there is no adveretising spam in the sleep section. If they start there the same it will filled up with thousands of entrys. —The preceding comment was added by User:Manoli (talk • contribs)

Thanks. The link to the Zakynthos Sleep site does persuade me that you have a good argument for deleting all the "Sleep" entries in the Zakynthos article, but the mere fact that entries are listed in multiple places is no proof that they are not worthy of being listed (although, obviously, copyright violation is an issue). So in order to reach a consensus, which consists of more than two people having a discussion, I will copy and paste this discussion to Talk:Zakynthos. But please disabuse yourself of the weird notion that I support spamming. I have never been to Zakynthos; know no-one who owns any property, operates any business, or has any interest whatsoever in any business in Zakynthos; do not own or have any financial interest in any real property whatsoever; and am a volunteer admin on Wikivoyage. Meanwhile, I have no idea who you are. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:04, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi Ikan, could you please explain why you have single handedly decided to take the rash decision to delete a new page that I was in the process of setting up on Rock, Cornwall? I had set up the page and entered some introductory text and had gone away to get some additional information to start filling in other sections only to return to find that some idiot had deleted the page. I can't see that the page infringed any of the policies or guidelines and you have clearly not properly followed any deletion procedure. You give a reason for deletion that there was little useful content on the page and there had only been one contributor. Hardly surprising when I had only just created the page a few minutes before? Perhaps a more productive use of your time might be to actually contribute something positive to Wikivoyage rather than preventing others from doing so. Tallguyuk (talk) 13:50, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

My apologies. If someone else has not restored the page, I will do so. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:51, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

It looks like someone else restored it in the interim. Apologies again; I goofed on this. Thanks for contributing, and I will try not to make this kind of mistake again. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:05, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

No problem, I can see how it happens. Tallguyuk (talk) 20:17, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for understanding. All the best, Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:22, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

For the record, 3 months is a little high for IP blocks since some users have dynamic IPs. If it's a static IP (the vandal keeps using the same IP and keeps getting the same blocks) it's probably okay though. It depends on how the ISP is set up. No worries though, it's always difficult dealing with anonymous editors :) --Rschen7754 20:21, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I wouldn't know how to recognize a static IP from a dynamic IP. Would you recommend a 1-month block in cases of spambots or severe vandalism? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:22, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

If they come back under a slightly different IP, it's definitely dynamic. In extreme cases, you can do a rangeblock (a block of a range of IPs), but if the range is large, you may need to consult a steward (since you have no local CUs) to make sure that you're not blocking innocent users as collateral damage.

However, if the same IP returns after you blocked it, it's definitely static. A 1 month block for a spambot seems fine, unless you can tell that it's an w:en:Open proxy, in which case you can block for a year or two. (If you look at the IP's contributions page on the English Wikipedia, there's some additional tools, and projecthoneypot.org may have some additional info. Unfortunately, I don't know too much more about finding those beyond that). IP blocking is definitely a complicated art :) --Rschen7754 20:30, 21 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hey, I wanted to respond to your comments on India and Pakistan. I don't think the problem as of now is very serious—I've seen edits every 2-3 minutes over the course of hours before that did justify protects, but I don't think it's too bad right now. (And I think I've watchlisted all pages related to all the world's territorial disputes by now.) If you're feeling burnt out at all dealing with the nationalist edit warriors, I'd recommend just working on something more enjoyable for a spell. For me that's usually mapmaking or more recently writing about Fitzgerald. The India and Pakistan articles are pretty well watched by a number of people. Your prolific patrolling work is amazingly helpful, though, so I hope I'm not discouraging you from it! --Peter ^Talk 09:01, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the good thoughts and helpful perspective, Peter. All the best, Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Dear, I know that this is travel site then also you have to show unclaimed map hatched understand. and if not then see http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Pakistan you will find kashmir region hatched. (Unsigned, posted by User:Jay8580)

The solution is that the cross-hatching should be deleted from the Pakistan map. I'm not sure how to do that, but you are right to point out an inconsistency. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks Dear finally you understand what i wanted to say.

Please sign your posts by typing 4 tildes (the "~" key) before you press enter on talk pages. But anyway, I'm sure we will fix the Pakistan map when someone checks Talk:Pakistan who knows how to do that. Please be patient. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:41, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

~Thanks Because i read this matter in state level newspaper.

This was covered in a newspaper in your state? That's surprising, and could help to explain the vehement reaction. And the moral of the story is, never ascribe to bias what is much more likely to be due to oversight. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:51, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

~Yes. It is gujarat samachar news paper leading news paper in gujarat state. go to this link http://www.gujaratsamachar.com/20130122/head/head4.html Jay8580(talk)

Well, I can't read Gujarati. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up. I certainly was not aware of the inconsistency in the maps until now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:02, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

~ you can use google translate

True. Do you suppose they'll do a follow-up article when we correct the problem? Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:12, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I responded to the comment you left on Talk:Buffalo and I wanted to make sure you were made aware of it so that you could give your opinion.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:34, 22 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Re: - http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Sundanese_phrasebook&diff=prev&oldid=2123802 I have seen this addition and it looks like a straight copy and paste from wp en - I would suspect such an addition is not really a valid way to provide information for a wikivoyage phrasebook here on wikivoyage in comparison to say http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Indonesian_phrasebook - I'd be interested to know how you would approach the problem... (on wp en the tendency for sundanese cultural info has a real problem with WP:UNDUE as if it is the centre of the known universe - something like some regions of malaysia as well...) thanks for any adevice or comments on the issue. sats (talk) 09:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi, sats. Yes, at a glance, it is clearly a cut-and-paste job, and therefore, needs to be blanked except for perhaps the barest of an introduction. I'll take care of it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:37, 23 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

A further remark: As a matter of policy, wholesale copy-paste jobs from Wikipedia are not allowed on this site, especially when they aren't even credited and include extraneous encyclopedic content. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:44, 23 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for this. I understand the reasoning; but there's a problem. As it happens, many more visitors come to Levoca for the day than stay overnight. If these restaurants are listed only under hotels we actually end with 'under-touting' - not making people aware that these resturants exist and effectively giving preference to the restaurants which don't have sleeping accommodation attached. This also seems unfair. In the meantime anyway I will reedit the articel to place the restaurant listings in the sleepsection, with perhpas a note after 'Eat' on the lines 'many hotels also have good restaurants open for day visitors,(see below)'. Best, --Smerus (talk) 21:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

That sounds like a good solution. Another possible solution is, if the restaurants are more notable or much more patronized than the hotels, perhaps it might be best to list them in "Eat," rather than "Sleep," with a note in their "Eat" listing that you can also stay at the hotel and a description of the hotel included. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:29, 23 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

just in case you didnt notice it - (User creation log); 17:41 . . User account AliCeja80 (talk | contribs) was created by AnnabelleDeitz85 (talk | contribs) ‎- cheers sats (talk) 10:15, 29 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I didn't notice. Thanks, sats. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:26, 29 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the welcome. I hope I don't screw things up...much. ;) ReveurGAM (talk) 10:36, 29 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Don't worry about that. We all screw up, and when we do, others are there to edit the screw-ups. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:15, 29 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I noticed your deletion of this photo item in Indonesia's food section, which I had considered doing last night (well, actually, after midnight) while editing the section, and I have a question about this food item. I have not heard of cabe lombok and, to my knowledge (and my Javanese wife's), lombok is just another word for chili pepper. Can you set me straight on this? Perhaps, if you can tell me what the Indonesian name is, I might have a photo I could upload. Thanks!ReveurGAM (talk) 05:22, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi. I really don't know because I really speak Bahasa Melayu, not Bahasa Indonesia. Lombok is only an island to me. Cabe evidently is the Indonesian equivalent of cabai, one Malay word for chili (lada and cili are more common), and coincidentally, that's how the word would be pronounced in Kelantan, the state just to the north of Terengganu, where I used to live (Bahasa Terengganu would pronounce the word "cabaaa"). Anyway, a Google image search for "cabe lombok" turns up a few photos of chilis, but I'm not sure what that proves. [13] Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:36, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

So, I guess we're both confused then. :) FYI, "cabai" is infrequently used here as an alt. spelling. "Lombok" is only uncommonly used to refer to chilis, being subject to confusion amongst the uninitiated because of the island. "Lada" and "merica" are used to refer to black/white pepper, not chilis, here. The only thing I know about Malaysian is that it's different enough that when I watch Upin Ipin or Boboi Boy, I get confused without subtitles. :)

I did a quick Google image search of "cabe lombok" and the hits on the first page (ignoring the island hits) showed the two words to be synonymous (e.g.: "cabe a.k.a. lombok"), not the name of a species of chili. The chili shown on that page appears to be the common but pricy mild "cabe merah besar", except for an image of "paprika" (bell pepper). That chili (CMB) and "cabe keriting" would be worthy additions given how frequently they are used (less so than rawit because of the higher price and inferior spiciness). Any thoughts?ReveurGAM (talk) 05:52, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Oh, by all means insert any photos you feel would help prospective or current visitors understand Indonesian cuisine!

By the way, in Malay, lada hitam does mean "black pepper," but "lada hidup" means fresh hot pepper and "lada kering" means dried hot pepper. When I visited Indonesia a couple of times in 1976 (yeah, that's how long it's been!), I think I understood about 75% of what people said to me, and they understood something more like 90% of my Malay. Using words like "bilik" instead of "kamar," they told us, was "Bahasa Dusun" - dusun being a word that in Malay was a bit fancy and synonymous with kampung. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:24, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I just noticed this discussion and thought I might add a couple of comments, and a digressive factiod for good measure. I my own experience I would normally expect to see a chili described as 'cabe' (alt) cabai, (alt) cabai merah, (alt) lombok (bahasa Jawa). That is certainly what I am familiar with conversationally. It must also be understood that the range and variety in chili plants and their 'fruits' is quite considerable.
Cabe is a general descriptive word, to which additional descriptors may be appended, hot, green, red, small, dry, fresh, sweet, long, big, small, and additionally many have common and specific names, many of which vary between regions.

Now for the slightly distracting, but still contextual factoid. The name of the island of Lombok is often misattributed to the chili (Id:cabe alt. lombok). Tourism promotions often use an image of a chili when marketing the island as a destination. Travel writers, often with some air of authority (and presumably just copying each others work), refer to the name of the island of Lombok in eastern Indonesia (NTB) as being "derived" or "meaning" Chili, from the Indonesian word (lombok), as is sometimes used to describe a chili.
It is true that the Sasak people of Lombok are quite liberal in the use of the chili in their diet, indeed some may appraise they are excessive in their embracing of the chili in various condiments, sambal, salads and in cooked food.
However, the name of the island is actually derived from the Sasak word lomboq, which is equivalent to lerus or (En) straight, straight ahead (alt:in a direct course). The Sasak (orang Lombok) describe a chili (cabe or lombok) thus; sebie, (alt) sebiya, (alt) sebiye, (alt) sebiye. The first may be the more popular spelling. It must be understood that Bahasa Sasak has strong 'oral' traditions, the language in written form gets a bit vague at times, and there is considerable regional dialectic variation, both in word use, and in pronunciation.-- Felix (talk) 18:03, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Looking over some of the recent edits on the Indonesia article I feel a bit concerned regarding some of the new content and edits, so I am going to wander over to the articles Talk page and leave a few comments. -- Felix (talk) 18:03, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the interesting discourse on chilis and language, and for whatever edits you will do in the Indonesia article. You always do great edits! Also, if you're an admin now, congrats, and if you aren't yet, you will be shortly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:02, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Holy chilis, Batman! Actually, dusun is used here, too, but not nearly as commonly as kampung and desa. I've not come across bilik but it seems oddly familiar. Or perhaps I'm just thinking of "bilk". ;) hehe

Felix, how many languages do you know? I don't even remember how to say "thank you" in Sasakian. :( You suggested above that cabe merah is the same as cabe, however that prompts the question: "What then is the meaning of merah if not "red", because chilis come in red, orang, yellow, green, purple and black?" -- —The preceding comment was added by username (talk • contribs)

It most certainly only applies when they are red, but they don't need to be hot and red, it only pertains to the colour alone as far as I am aware. Generally I am more concerned about the fluctuating price of the things :) -- Felix (talk) 18:34, 3 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

it would seem that user pages - if a user chooses to offer an email address for off wikivoyage conversation - that long term users have simply provided their email address as part of the text on the page. I understand that some would never want such a connection, while others would want to do so - my stance is that if someone really wants to contact - they go to my wp en page and send an email via the link there under 'user' - I wouldnt want to bother the current range of considerations in wikivoyage with such a facility in the drop-down, I think there are far more important things to be considered policy wise... sats (talk) 09:19, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

I just about never provided my email address except accidentally, and then I discover that because a user emails me about something that should be discussed on user talk or the talk page for an article. I did send you an email through one of those forms on Commons, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:40, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

odd, as I do not seem to have received anything - the wp en drop down seems to be the best way to go sats (talk) 10:02, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Wikivoyage:How_to_start_a_new_page&oldid=2011002 for some reason i cannot find how to revert 2 edits rather than the one. unsigned 10:12, 31 January 2013 SatuSuro oops sats (talk) 14:47, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Click history, select the last good version, click 'edit', click 'save'. K7L (talk) 10:51, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

Or what I usually do: You go into the history and then compare the current version to the last clean version and click "undo." Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:53, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

thank you both - I was in a hurry to get off the computer to get to an appointment but didnt want to leave it unattended - thanks sats (talk) 14:47, 31 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

OK I'm not new to wikis but new here and a bit confused about Wikivoyage policy so perhaps you could help me out. Just so me and you are on the same page, you just deleted a link I added to Bridlington. I have no link to the fish and chip shop in question and no desire to promote it. What I've read says this wiki likes in article links to pages(rather than citations) and also likes direct info rather than third party sources. So when I come across a national award winning chippy in Brid I think it'd be good to have it in the article. I can guess a few things I might have done wrong - but the trouble is they're just guesses. So can you explain to me more fully what you have problems with so I can try to not do it again, if indeed I have broken WV policy? And perhaps in future you could maybe leave me a message on my talk page if you have a problem with my editing as a message in a edit history box probably comes across harsher than you meant it... and in any case leaves me little wiser as to what actually needs changing. --Dakinijones (talk) 04:38, 1 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi. I welcome you here and appreciate the editing you're doing, and I'm sorry the edit summary sounded harsh. A real entry looks like this, as shown in Wikivoyage:Restaurant listings:

*'''Name of Restaurant''', Address (''extra directions if necessary''), phone number (''email, fax, other contact if possible''), [http://www.restaurant.example.com/]. Days and times open. One to three sentences about the food, service, atmosphere, view, specialties, music, what have you. $lowprice-highprice (''extra price info'').

There needs to be a physical address in the guide, so the reader knows where the fish and chips place is. And it's great if the fish and chips place won an award, but the name of the organization or survey that gave the award needs to be mentioned in the description within the entry. Just a link plus a "best in UK" seems promotional, but in context, the link and a mention of the award would be fine. For the other edit I made, please have a look at the external links policy. One of the goals of Wikivoyage is to serve travelers on the go who don't have access to the internet, for whatever reason. So necessary information - name of pub, address, how to get there if it isn't obvious, phone number, hours if you know them, some kind of description - needs to be in the guide on Wikivoyage, not in a link somewhere else. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:58, 1 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for explaining... That's really made it a lot clearer and will definitely help my editing in the future. --Dakinijones (talk) 05:05, 1 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Great! Thanks again for your edits, and please carry on! Cheers, Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:09, 1 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi Ikan, that is a notable improvement here. That was one of the several issues that bothered me on a first read. I think it could be developed a bit further though. In my own experience there are no "pockets of animism". There are certainly areas where animism is more overt, the adherents of Waktu Telu in North Lombok, even more so the (not quite diminished) Boda of North Lombok are stand outs. There is also a distinct group of people midway between Jakarta and Anyar in West Jawa. However my point here is that though they, and other similar groups may be overtly symbolic of Animist practice it has a far more common theme in Indonesia. I cannot recall ever meeting an Indonesian that is not bearing at least latent Animism. Scratch the skin of any Indonesian and a Animist is revealed. I have formed the distinct impression that it is not only part of the 'human condition' for Indonesians, it is possibly somehow imbedded in their DNA. When considered with some pause this is not surprising. Animism is part of the human condition, indeed some may go as far as to proclaim that it is the human condition. The progressions of first Hinduism, then other beliefs such as Buddhism, Christianity and Islam have really only served to repress Animism in Indonesia, it is alive and well behind every tree, hiding under every bed, in all the shadows and borne upon every gust of wind and in every rustle of a palm frond. If any thing goes wrong it is quickly revealed who in the room is an animist, I would be surprised to see one in their number who will express it either overtly or by deference. I don't think we are portraying that in the article yet. Maybe we don't need to. However I though I might share that with you as I am aware of your own roots in the region. -- cheers Felix (talk) 13:48, 1 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I do relate to this. But thinking about my greater experience in Malaysia, while I think a lot of the orthodox Muslims actually would fear hantu, they don't make animism part of their religious or customary (adat) practice. So maybe it would be more accurate to say that there are some Indonesians who adhere only to traditional Indonesian animistic religions (pockets of them, if we want to maintain that phrasing), whereas most other Indonesians are in a formal sense adherents of Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, or Buddhism, though most of the inhabitants of the country - of whatever formal religious identity - also maintain animist beliefs. In any case, don't hesitate to make any edits you believe would improve the accuracy or tone of the section on folk religion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:05, 1 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

I, too, like your improvement that Felix linked to above, and I agree that it should be developed further. I've already made my opinion clear (I hope) about what you wrote about religion in the talk page. I'm not sure how I feel about "pockets" because I've met people who deny being animists (despite utilizing animistic beliefs, sometimes), others who admit believing in it while it isn't their religion (with the same caveat), and I've met some who claim they are animists. Most interestingly, the syncretization (sic?) of Christianity and Kejawan is not denied quite as often as it is with Muslims.

I will, however, have to completely disagree that it is "in their DNA." I won't expound on it, but I find it oddly offensive.

The overlay of newer religions on older ones can be observed all over the world, or so I've heard. Look at Christianity's holidays: most of them are placed over pagan holidays (eg: Easter, Halloween, Christmas), even to the point that Christmas is on the wrong date. I doubt this has anything to do with DNA but rather indicative of how difficult it is to rid oneself completely of one's value system, even when it has been discarded in favor of another.

I appreciate your experience in Malaysia, IK, but what is true there isn't true here. Animism is, indeed, alive and well - even if it's not admitted to. When my in-laws insisted on hanging my daughter's "twin" from the rafters, they admitted it wasn't an Islamic tradition and, when pressed, admitted it was animistic. My son's "twin" was buried. My in-laws, by the way, are tolerant but fairly religious (but dad's dead :( ) Still not sure about "pockets", but I like the way you worded everything else above. FYI, you forgot Confucianism, the 6th religion. ReveurGAM (talk) 17:47, 1 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

These articles were copied directly from Wikipedia, if you were wondering. I might go ahead and nom nom nom them for deletion, unless if you think they can be speedied. JamesA ^>talk 06:32, 2 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

I already deleted 2012, having checked Wikipedia myself. I will delete 2013. No reason to have a Vfd discussion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:33, 2 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

have had a few days attending to real life, and will try to read all the comings and goings with the Indonesian article - once I have read all the talk material, and changes in articles, will decide whether I am interested in getting involved. Having both my wife and I do Pd level anthropology field work in Java, I find quite a lot that I have read so far quite to be debatable, but whether, in the end it is worth taking on the opinions or even commenting here on wikivoyage is debatable. I might in the end just remain silent, and edit the atrociously under-written Tasmanian articles the talk pages are already far too full, and honestly 'Indonesian superstitions' aka folklore, was in my head for over 15 years, to have to deal with others experiences or ideas might not necessarily be of any benefit to a wikivoyage article or two in the end... it might just muddy the waters... sats (talk) 15:05, 2 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, sats. I'd be grateful if you'd edit anything that's either inaccurate, misleading, or has a problematic tone. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:02, 2 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

sheesh - the Indonesian stuff feels like too much to handle at the moment, I think Ill go back under my rock and have a slightly longer sleep. One thing to tag the newcomers, another to enter into conversation about the nuances of life in the tropics ... sats (talk) 01:07, 3 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Selamat tidur. All in good time. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:58, 3 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

and when I do dip in the recent edits and see like : -(diff | hist) . . Talk:London/City of London‎; 01:09 . . (+243)‎ . . ‎Visit the City (talk | contribs)‎ (→‎Hello - here to help: ) - and remember seeing you do blocks on spammers - I suppose I need to get into a conversation about doing the patrol, seeing the really obvious usernames and the subject, and without even looking at what they have (or not) written, I am interested to see your comment about how much leeway such edits are or not allowed in the area of spam and setting themselves up as 'the centre of the universe' as at http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Roanoke - havent welcomed, as even if I was to read touting into the edits, interested in having any suggestions as to where the lines of demarcation are seeing you regularly knock em off... sats (talk) 09:01, 7 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

This is by no means the worst touting I've seen, but current policy is shown here SEO#Marketers_and_SEOs:

"Because there is an inherent conflict of interest when someone is being paid for their edits, if you are working for a hotel chain, a marketing agency, or a similar organization then you may not add multiple listings for that business to Wikivoyage articles. Wikivoyage is not a yellow pages, so adding every individual location for a hotel brand or restaurant chain is not an appropriate use of this site. If a hotel is truly exceptional, or if a city has a very limited number of lodging options available, you may propose a listing to be added on the article's talk page, but do not add the listing yourself. Marketers that add multiple business listings should expect to see their contributions reverted, and in the worst case repeated violations of this policy may lead to blocking of the contributor's account and possibly blacklisting of the business in question.

Marketers and paid editors may make factual corrections to existing hotel listings, but these changes should be strictly limited to non-subjective information such as URLs or phone numbers. As explained above, do not remove negative information from a listing without first discussing the change; if a listing states that a hotel has a dated interior but the property has undergone recent renovation, point out this fact on the article's talk page and let someone else update the listing."

I think some other admins would immediately revert the entire edit and tell the commercial user to stop touting. However, no listings were actually added. So what I would do is detout the listings to make them purely informational and merge them into one listing (presumably in "Sleep") that covers both the hotel and the restaurant, and send the commercial user a message pointing them to don't tout and welcome, business owners. Would you like to take care of this? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:39, 7 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

almost in a car pile up about an hour ago, the foxtel signal has gone down, and I have a meeting to go to, I'll pass... sats (talk) 10:44, 7 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Yikes! Glad you're OK. Be careful out there! Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:08, 7 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

That sounds quite unsettling sats, maybe you shouldn't have been watching foxtel in the car anyway. I do hope you are OK and that the TV is not broken. I had a look at that article and made a few adjustments. Have a look over it and take care of anything else you notice. -- Felix (talk) 20:39, 7 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Wondering if you can take care of these [14]? Travel Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:47, 3 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

I don't know how to do this and I'm not sure how much longer I'll be awake, so I'll just leave the task for someone else. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:49, 3 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

That would've also been the reason why the main page wasn't displaying properly for you :-) JamesA ^>talk 12:50, 3 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hello. I am relatively new to WIKIVOYAGE and am not positive if I can reply to your emails. I have been attempting to make/create the Moszna Castle page. I do not mind that the page has been re-directed, however, I made an error on the original entry and now the page is in the wrong place. My original error involves the "Lublin Voivodeship". This castle is not located in the Lublin Voivodeship. It is located in the Opole Voivodeship. Can you please redirect it to an "Opole" or "Silesia" page? Once again, I do not know how to reply to your messages. If you could be so kind as inform me that the changes have taken place I would appreciate it. I want to make sure it is in the correct spot. Thanks, Norris4949.

Hi. I will take care of this. I hope it isn't confusing to you that I moved your post to the bottom of my user talk page for ease in reading. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:55, 10 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hey Ikan Kekek, i replied to you on my Talk page - (talk!

Is it a hangover from wiki travel or some other part of the archaeology of this venture - but a large number of outline articles seem to have headings and parts of things with vast amount of white space (ie spaces between text and headings), I was sure when I just a starter at old wp en that I was chastised for leaving any white space around... I was told in no uncertain terms that such a practice was a waste of space as the headings didnt need space above or below and they were formatted to make the right adjustments. It seems that the vast spaces here on wv are testament to something that is not explained anywhere... sats (talk) 10:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hi, sats. I really don't know if there's any policy on this. We should have a discussion about it and come to an agreement. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

hmmm - I know some of the discussions here are so extraodrinarily specific on some issues, I am not sure this is going to be an issue with time well spent, oh well here goes... sats (talk) 23:30, 14 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

OK I am wrong - once again - Wikivoyage:Section headers has established that the spaces are required (the reasoning to me is bollocks, but hey), however the talk page suggests that inadequate discussion has occurred on the subject... so I have taken the subject to the pub. sats (talk) 00:19, 15 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Good. I'll have a look. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:57, 15 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

It was discussed - but hey like some things here - one support, one oppose - so it went nowhere... also a reply to my query making fun of worrying about a byte seems to be what i expected. Less then 50,000 articles it might seem ok - when the project gets to over 100,000 maybe they might think again about wasted space sats (talk) 08:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

That's a good point. I hope you make it in the thread. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

There's the rub - the amount of dead threads around the place make one wonder... Even something as simple as my admin nom sits in limbo like a sore thumb (either direction... wait or archive or what) some parts of this project they leave the lights on and the door open... :| sats (talk) 09:08, 15 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hello Ikan Kekek. You have a new message at Curtaintoad's talk page. Thanks, Curtaintoad ^{(curtain or toad)} 09:24, 20 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

The Indonesian one bothers me a lot - but real life returned my youngest from overseas with suspect DVT early this am (long waits in emergency departments etc etc), along with everything else, my capacity to be coherent in my critiquing having long history sections will have to wait. Thank you for suggesting about taking it higher. sats (talk) 02:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Sorry to hear about your son's travails. My best wishes to both of you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:58, 21 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Nah he's sleeping it all off at the moment - its all good - as they say. I am more concerned that the history discussion that you and reveur are having is a good productive reduction - and I dont want to thwart that process - it is clear you both sound off against each other on the issues - and it looks good with the improvements.

As I say elsewhere, I am simply against putting extensive history into wikivoyage - it smells of (ie has a nafas of) something that somehow doesnt feel right to me - it is one thing to have issues with renditions of what Suharto did or didnt do - and the effects that have carried down to affect the world that traveller is moving in - but the nafas is of moving into non-goal, I know that if I was to an 'understand' section for my research site/(which is a tourist destination, must write it up some day), then I would really get carried away with aspects of history, anthropology, semiotics, and a little bit of the 'londho's' reflection of what a ziarah site might be like in the bantul regency.... I certainly would 'not want to provide anything' about the complex enclave issues that existed between Yk and Sk (assume you know the abbreviations) and how it affected villages and wider community issues in the eastern bantul area for over 50 years before sukarno era... the detail is probably the devil in all this... If there is anything that has got to me almost 20 years after my fieldwork, is that its what you leave out is as important as what you put in. Like my wifes fieldwork that echoes your mothers... there are details in the world of birth in this whole archipelago that might fit into some books, but others it doesnt go in it all. Hope that explains where I am coming from just in case you wondered.  :) sats (talk) 09:41, 21 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

I sort of get it but it's late and I've had a few shots of whiskey, so I'm not sure. :-) I don't actually recognize the abbreviations Yk and Sk. I get your point about non-goals, but a bit of knowledge may be good (though I do get the point about a little knowledge being dangerous). Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

sheesh it is sooooo hot here (40 degrees C) - a drop of anything alcoholic would be close to fatal for me - Imogiri - Yogyakarta (Yk) and Surakarta (Sk) enclaves - the subject is like a borgesian labyrinth of madening intricacy that even local yogyakarta based academic historians were averse to try to unfold/unpack and explain... sats (talk) 09:54, 21 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

It's cold here. Yes, I do know some about the rivalry between the two great cities of Central Javanese culture. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:55, 21 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

This was something much more complex than that - I must do something somewhere to explain the issue, it was bizarre and really obscure... somewhere, some day... sats (talk) 10:07, 21 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hello Ikan Kekek. You have a new message at Curtaintoad's talk page. Thanks, Curtaintoad ^{(curtain or toad)} 09:54, 20 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Please be my friend ! ('~') And please reply to this message if you have the time! Curtaintoad ^{(curtain or toad)} 11:37, 22 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Not sure what you mean by being your friend. We're just pixels on a website, hopefully going after the same goal of improving the site. Take it easy. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:53, 22 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Okay. Curtaintoad ^{(curtain or toad)} 23:23, 22 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Having polluted your talk page with all the self revealing material about the unfinished post graduate project (any archiving of any of the material would be appreciated...) - could you be so kind as to delete the page entitled SatuSuro/sandbox please? I inadvertantly created it without placing the rather important User: in there , and the redirect page is now redundant. Thanks sats (talk) 08:33, 24 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

I deleted the redirect. I thought anyone could do that, though. No? As for the other stuff, go ahead and delete or archive anything you don't want to be here that concerns you, as long as it won't mess up a conversation that's important for some other reason. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

nah no big deal really - as for the delete - I didnt think ord eds could do... sats (talk) 12:00, 24 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Hello! I was just checking Prevalla. The text has been taken from [15] which is under Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License and afaik, according to Wikivoyage:Copyleft, the user who created the article is able to use the text from it. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this has always been like this (CC-by-sa-3.0 or Pd is allowed on wikimedia projects). Thank you in advance--Arnaugir (talk) 15:41, 24 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

You are right, but I don't think unattributed copying is OK, as we don't allow that from Wikipedia, either. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Yes, it should be cited, maybe in edit summary or talk page? like in wikipedia.--Arnaugir (talk) 14:52, 26 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

I decided to put this on your page instead of on the Talk: Indonesia page since it seemed of interest to you and not so useful for travelers to know, perhaps. I hope that you don't mind.

Your comments about your experience in the 70's during Suharto's reign spurred my curiosity. Yesterday, I was judging a competition so, afterwards, I took the time to ask my fellow judges (all in their early/mid 30s) about the Suharto era. I also asked my mother-in-law today, whose husband was a police officer (he was part of the first batch to graduate from officer's school), about what her perception of that time was. I thought you might find the information interesting.

Prior to Suharto taking control, the masses viewed him as the best choice to succeed Sukarno. There was no awareness of his villainy and machinations against Sukarno. After his rise to president/dictator, the national educational system (at least up to secondary) was used as a propaganda system to plant in the minds of the masses that he was a great man. And, indeed, the commentators I spoke to all agreed that he did a great deal of good for the common person. But, they were - in effect - brainwashed into believing him to be a hero of the highest caliber (sounds like N. Korea, almost?). Three of the four stated they were completely unaware of Suharto's real nature prior to entering university. Even as the wife of an officer, my mom-in-law knew very little about what was going on because her husband didn't discuss police matters with her. One commented that there were rumors going around prior to university, but it was their fellow students (activists) who opened