User talk:SHB2000/Archive 2022

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

This page contains all the discussions from 2022.

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18:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

01:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

I noticed you were creating articles for World Heritage Sites that lack them. https://www.worldheritagesite.org/ is in my opinion the best place to research these sites and has useful information that's aimed at tourists rather than conservationists, also the official UNESCO website's design is really bad in my opinion. Here's the pages on Ichkeul and Tsodilo Tai123.123 (talk) 06:41, 12 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the link. I'd never known that website and I agree that it is definitely much much better than whc.unesco.org. I think Ypsilon created an article for most world heritage sites, although there were some like Dinosaur Provincial Park that was only created in 2021. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:17, 12 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yes, when new WHS come up (after their yearly conference every July) I add the UNESCO icons to banners of articles we have and create new articles if the site merits its own article. --Ypsilon (talk) 12:46, 15 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

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19:55, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I was reading Ancient Mesopotamia and I found template listings instead of template marker. Which template do you think is more suitable for ancient sites? For Ancient Kangleipak, I used template marker! Haoreima (talk) 11:33, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Either is generally fine. We don't have a style on this. Ancient Egypt, Ned Kelly tourism (I wrote that one so I remember it well), or Indus Valley Civilisation seem to use listings while New South Wales national parks (it still sits a red link farm :-( although it looks much better than it was in August) uses markers. It's really up to you to pick which style you prefer.

Anime and manga in Japan is another one, but it uses the see, do, eat, sleep et cetera listings depending on the category it falls under. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:52, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Have you decided to create a banner? For that, have you found any suitable image for Ancient Kangleipak? If not, what will one of these look like in banner format?

Haoreima (talk) 12:22, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

If not perfectly suitable, shall we make a collage? Is collage allowed in Wikivoyage banners? Haoreima (talk) 12:23, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'll see how they look on croptool. And from Wikivoyage:Image policy, I don't think it's allowed. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:25, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

The lions don't seem to fit and the second seems to cut out most of it. Do you have any other image suggestions which can hopefully fit the 7:1 banner ratio? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Sure, I will search for it. :-) Haoreima (talk) 04:01, 19 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Haoreima Hey Haoreima. Was wondering if you found an alternative that I can crop. Just needs to be over 2100x300 pixels and fit in a 7:1 ratio. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:14, 29 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thank you a lot for your concern. Only a few people are kind like you. Oh, I am just searching for it. Presently, I don't. If not found appropriate, I will have to capture some photos myself. :) Haoreima (talk) 12:17, 29 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

:-) Take your time. There's no hurry. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:18, 29 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm wondering if it makes sense to put off article mergers and deletions until after January 31. It's only a couple of weeks, and new article creation will probably settle down after then. I don't think were going to have much success in encouraging quality over quantity at this point. What do you think? Ground Zero (talk) 23:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Okay sure. I'll put off everything until then. But what about those that fail wiaa such as the hotel I put up for deletion? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

I made a mention of the Sydney Fish Market, Central Market in Adelaide, and Queen Victoria Market in Melbourne in the section about markets. I wonder if the Fremantle Markets should get a mention too. I know locals from Fremantle do not like it when people refer to it as part of Perth, but in practice it really is part of the Perth metropolitan area. The dog2 (talk) 22:03, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, I know someone from Fremantle who now lives in my neighbourhood and they usually insist that they were not from Perth even though it's merely in the southwestern suburbs of Perth. I'd say mention it

As a side note, should something like this also go in Shopping in Australia? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:06, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

I guess they could. Whenever I wanted to buy macadamia nuts to bring back to Singapore as souvenirs for friends and relatives, Central Market was where I would go. Speaking of which, are there any other food markets that you think are worth a mention? The dog2 (talk) 22:09, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Maybe Paddy's Market in Haymarket could also get a mention. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:13, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

In that case, maybe you could expand the section somewhat to give more information about traditional food markets. I'm not sure if there are any in Brisbane given that I last visited Brisbane when I was 7 years old. The dog2 (talk) 22:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Sure, I'll expand that section. re Brisbane, I don't know about the ones in Brisbane either merely because I never went to any of them. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:34, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

21:38, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

I wonder if you want to start this topic. Camping is quite a nice way to experience nature in Australia, and, and if you're familiar, you can cover some of the legal considerations as well. The dog2 (talk) 01:03, 25 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

I actually had this in my userspace since July (feel free to edit it). Coincidentally, I stumbled across it yesterday, and I was actually planning to revive that. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:05, 25 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I have recently been inactive here, but I have returned to work on the Cocos Malay phrasebook. Considering it is nearly finished (and I will complete it soon), could you please review it and change its status from "outline" to the appropriate status? Thanks. Basa Pulu Kokos (talk) 03:25, 25 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hello Basa Pulu Kokos, per Wikivoyage:Phrasebook status, there needs to be a pronunciation guide before such an upgrade. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:34, 25 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Basa Pulu Kokos I upgraded it to usable with a link to the Malay phrasebook. Thanks for creating that phrasebook :-) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:29, 26 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

17:42, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

You and I can both see the telltale signs of a hotel publicist, but I don't think their listings were that bad, and I was going to either edit my post or add another one to the effect that I didn't actually revert their listing. Plus, we didn't warn that IP before a block. So I would lift the block, but I wasn't going to do so without contacting you. What do you think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:06, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Nevermind, I see your explanation. Good call. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:06, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yeah I warned the IP on another page regarding the use of USD for destinations clearly where USD won't be accepted in User talk:116.206.244.93 and User talk:175.157.226.124 but they just ignored me :-(. For that, per Wikivoyage:How to handle unwanted edits#Escalating user blocks, I blocked them for three days. Not to forget the touting... SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:11, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Also looks like one of their edit was reverted by @Ibaman:. Currently on the hunt or further edits by this IP-hopping tout. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:19, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

A few years ago, loads of Ascott properties were listed throughout the world by folks who if I remember listed only them and one other chain. We should be on the lookout for that. I delisted one Ascott property this user added, as there were plenty of other hotels listed in that article and no real reason to play around with a touting paid publicist. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:30, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

This IP seems to be adding a lot of Parkroyal listings too. Perhaps time to delist all of them? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:31, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I don't know. It's always hard to know which listings were added legitimately on this site. For that reason, I never trust hotel or restaurant listings here and always cross-reference them with other sites. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:37, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

To answer your question, in Singapore "program" is used in the context of a computer program, but otherwise, it's always "programme". So essentially, the same as in the UK. The dog2 (talk) 16:04, 2 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I see. Was just asking because in Australia, it's "program" for everything, similar to the U.S. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 20:19, 2 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

You changed "Newly built in the last several years" to "Newly built" in Kabul, as "exact date not relevant in a travel guide". The exact date is not, but "newly built" needs at least a year.

In this case an IP editor had copied the listing from WT, and the venue was "newly built in the last several years" already back in 2013. Not that critical for a cricket stadium, but from another IP it was added that the airport is "fully open", also a WT copy, and also that wording was there in 2013.

–LPfi (talk) 09:58, 3 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure whether you're talking about the right diff – my edit was Special:Diff/4382704 which was a copyedit and removing 15 from August 15. Was there an edit conflict or something? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:02, 3 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Oops. It seems the IP editor added a redundant listing. Ours had been edited to remove the odd "in the last several years". I removed ours thinking it was the newly added one, and as it had "changed" from last I checked, I though it must have been edited in the only edit made since it was added. Sorry. –LPfi (talk) 10:48, 3 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

No problems. That edit history with two IPs copying was confusing at first, but thanks for handling the copyvio. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:50, 3 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Just making sure you're aware than on the UNESCO tentative list just means that the government as submitted to unesco for review and unesco hasn't reviewed it yet. Your description of Qajartalik on Qikertaaluk Island made it seem like it was already a unesco site. Tai123.123 (talk) 02:22, 4 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I'm well aware of it. I should have perhaps worded it better on Qikertaaluk Island. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:21, 4 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

walking the nullarbor for instance, which on some wikis is no longer a plain ? I'm back and intact, sorry for the delay in replies at various instances... JarrahTree (talk) 01:14, 7 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hey JarrahTree. Nice to see you back :-) No need to be sorry, I guess technical issues are out of what you're in control of. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:26, 7 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

21:16, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

I would like to request the semi-protection (only allow autoconfirmed and confirmed users to edit) for the page North Korea. It is clearly a vandalism target page and many instances of vandalism have occurred on the page. Thanks. Basa Pulu Kokos (talk) 09:46, 11 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I started a discussion at Talk:North Korea#Protection many moons ago. It didn't get the consensus to so unfortunately can't do. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:48, 11 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I don't think you need consensus to temporarily semi-protect the article if you think that's warranted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:51, 11 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Much of those edits were by Brendan (which isn't vandalism but still unconstructive). Page protecting against him won't do anything. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:11, 11 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

They're block-evading?? Did they do anything wrong on this site? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:08, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

They're now globally locked by Sotiale, but it's the same user as Te Reo Ahitereiria according to a CU investigation (see m:Steward requests/Checkuser#Basa Pulu [email protected]). Only did the additional block in order to enable autoblock on the IP they used. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:22, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I see. What did they do wrong on other sites? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:31, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Vandalism at least, according to w:Special:Contributions/Te Reo Ahitereiria. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:00, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek Looks like they're back on meta making personal attacks against Graham87. I'd not be surprised if they're back here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:25, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

This Month in GLAM – Volume XII, Issue I, January 2022 Headlines Belgium report: Belgium report Brazil report: A portable museum experience to digitize and share collections online Colombia report: Let's celebrate the Public domain day with Wikisource Estonia report: Mobile Photo Studio + New Cooperations Finland report: Photowalks in Helsinki, autumn 2021 France report: Training course for Musée de l'armée staff members; Journée Wikimédia Culture et numérique 2022; Wikiway Indonesia report: GLAM Indonesia wrap-up; Public Domain Day 2022 in Indonesia; #1Lib1Ref Italy report: Collaborations and new projects in January Romania report: About #1lib1ref activities in Romania (and Moldova) Serbia report: Successful end of the Old and even more successful beginning of the New year Spain report: BiBat Museum and libraries Sweden report: Uploads of photographs taken by Swedish missionaries in China; Sörmlands museum's first contributions UK report: Khalili Collections and British Library USA report: Report from DPLA AvoinGLAM report: Hello, world! Content Partnerships Hub report: Results and summaries; Helping with getting Pattypan back on track; Working with partners to make content available Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons report: February 22: Meetup about SDC support in OpenRefine WMF GLAM report: Wikimedia campaigns for librarians and museum workers; Community Wishlist Survey; and Wikimedia query services Calendar: February's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

19:18, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

The word is "thoroughly", not "throughly" Please amend these to the correct spelling, and please make sure you're double checking your own spelling before using this tool.ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:31, 16 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I am also confused by the talk page messages. I have seen two of them in the last days, but that's just in articles that happen to be on my watchlist. They are very confusing and hard to decipher, and those two seemed to be obvious non-typos. –LPfi (talk) 20:04, 16 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Apologies for not checking properly. Will do in future. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 20:51, 16 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I checked the edits on sv-voy. Surprisingly good Swedish and no false information. Whether to use native or translated names is a difficult judgement, I'd need to check sources for best practises on each name. I think there is too little activity over there to spend energy on fighting blocked users doing harmless edits, and possibly explaining reverts. If unconstructive reverts – even well-justified ones – start to dominate, the project has a hard time attracting users. –LPfi (talk) 20:24, 16 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

@LPfi That's interesting to know. Is Swedish easier for machine translations to get accurate than Finnish? I once heard that Finnish isn't easy to learn and machine translations to get perfect, which explains the unusual previous edits by Luchy04. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:33, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Swedish is a Germanic language like German and English, while Finnish isn't even an Indo-European one. Relations between words in Finnish are encoded in suffixes in a sometimes very intricate way, so getting it right requires semantic understanding. Translating word for word, with just a little tweaking, such as between Germanic languages, may give comprehensible results when translating into Finnish, but seldom anything resembling idiomatic language, and the other way round the result is often pure nonsense – which is the result also when trying to get idiomatic language without really understanding the semantics. –LPfi (talk) 10:12, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

That makes sense. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:16, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

If Silicon Valley had been in Finland, we might have got good machine translations between, say, Finnish and Hungarian. Translating across language families is harder, and the language models developed for Indo-European languages don't work with Finnish. Now, Finland has quite some high-tech and linguistic know-how and high-level research, and the need for machine translation across language boundaries (such as to Swedish and English), so we will probably see reasonable machine translations at some point. –LPfi (talk) 10:22, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, it's interesting to see more and more languages that have machine translators these days. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:29, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hello SHB2000! In simple english wikipedia article wikipedia:simple:Loktak lake, similar things are going on by an anonymous like the one done in wikivoyage India page, which needs reverting. I reverted two times. Now, it's still re editing it. What shall we do? Haoreima (talk) 16:13, 21 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Are you suggesting a Wikivoyage article should be written about this lake? Based on the Simple Wikipedia entry, it doesn't come close to passing the Wikivoyage:What is an article test. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:27, 21 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: No! I am reminding about the persistent vandalism that took place in the wikivoyage article India. Similar things happen in simple english wikipedia article "Loktak lake". As of now, idk what to do. So, I was asking SHB2000! Haoreima (talk) 02:35, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

You mean that obnoxious user is there? If you're an admin there, block, revert and if necessary, semi-protect the article for a relatively short time. If not, let others deal with it. I'm not sure what else to say. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:14, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

That IP hopping user has w:WP:CIR issues and was very brave to revert someone who's been active since the times of Wikitravel and such they were rightly blocked for vandalising pages. For this IP, I warned them on their talk. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:19, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I don't think that user is incompetent, just nasty, rigid and often wrong. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:24, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Them not willing to take messages given to them and then accuse both of us of "edit-warring" is definitely incompetent, on top of being nasty, rigid and wrong 90pc of the time. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:27, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

No, it's reflexively blaming others. That's not incompetent, just anti-social. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:34, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Makes sense. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:34, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yeah! Thanks for warning that ip. Meanwhile, I have added more and more references to the article about the very fact so that such arguments may not happen in future. :-) Haoreima (talk) 05:36, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Unfortunately, that editor is an IP hopping user so they could be back under another IP. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:38, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

The first reason (though unreasonable) given by that ip was "not mentioned in Regular English Wikipedia article". Yes, "Loktak lake-World's only floating lake" isn't mentioned in Regular English article but it's not a reasonable argument. :-) Haoreima (talk) 05:39, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

That IP comes up with weird and insane arguments just to get an article the way they want it to be. The page history for Quetzaltenango is an interesting one to look at. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:44, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks the article Quetzaltenango is protected. Else, there might be further troubles. On the other hand, as you said, it came true. That ip returns with another ip. As of now, he only talks in the talk page and idk if he will do the same thing again. Haoreima (talk) 05:49, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

19:12, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

23:00, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Here are some museums which are operated fully or partly by Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO)

• BM Birla Space Museum (operated in collaboration with ISRO)- Located in Hyderabad, Telangana.
• Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) Space Museum- (fully operated by ISRO)- Located in Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala.
• Space Theme Park (SDSC) (the main launch site for ISRO)- Located in Sriharikota island. This place is not open to public at all times. Before any launch, registration opens on the website provided above, and tourists and enthusiasts can register themselves to get into the Launch gallery.

For launch/flight Site-

• Satish Dhawan Space Centre (SDSC) which is technically and professionally called the Sriharikota Range (SHAR) can be added (13.7325, 80.2279)

For Space Centres-

Major Indian Space Flight Centres

Centre	Location	Notes	Geo-location
Space Applications Centre (SAC)	Ahmedabad	Mainly for Research and development	23.02872.5181 SAC
Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC)	Thiruvananthapuram	Research Centre	8.51876.8872 VSSC
U R Rao Satellite Centre (URSC)	Bengaluru	Satellite development and manufacturing	12.96177.6543 URSC
Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC)	Thiruvananthapuram, Bengaluru	Developing rocket engines	8.810176.98854 LPSC113.305177.71365 LPSC2
Satish Dhawan Space Centre (SDSC) SHAR	Sriharikota Range	The main centre where the launches take place	13.743680.22516 SDSC
ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC)	Bengaluru	Similar to NASA's DSN.	13.03577.51237 ISTRAC

2006nishan178713^t@lk 06:27, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

@2006nishan178713: Nice work. I was always curious as to why there was no sites in India and it was one of the reasons I opposed a feature nomination because it was so US-Euro centric with barely any sites in Asia, which has two of the four largest space agencies. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:30, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yes, it is Western-centric. Also ISRO is kind of conservative and doesn't publicise that much. 2006nishan178713^t@lk 06:39, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Makes sense. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:41, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I think that due to the COVID pandemic, the Space Theme Park and the launch gallery registration is halted temporarily. 2006nishan178713^t@lk 11:30, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yeah many places have been hit by Covid, but I think you can still mention them, just mention that it is temporarily halted. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:34, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I will do it after 9th of March, probably next Thursday, I will be busy from tomorrow. By the way, can you give me some idea about how to create a static map like the one below? It's not urgent. Cheers!! 2006nishan178713^t@lk 11:58, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

There's a good tutorial at Wikivoyage:How to draw static maps. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 20:09, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks 2006nishan178713^t@lk 08:03, 3 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Your comment "Pretty much so" of 08:45, 1 March 2022 (UTC) appears to be in the wrong place based on indentation and relevance to the text above. Should it refer to the previous comment of mine? diff

Also, I will take you up on your offer to explain/demonstrate/link to help for making a static map toggleable. Cheers, • • • Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 10:00, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I think I put it in the wrong place. For the togglable static map, all that needs to be added to the page is the following code:

{{Regionlist
| regionmap=Dive sites of the Whittle Rock Reef high resolution.png
| regionmaptext=Map of the Whittle Rock main reef
| regionmapsize=<replace this with the size you want>px 
| regionInteractiveMap=map1
}}

Not sure on what size would suit, but as an example, if I use 500px, I get the following on the right, except that the markers showing on this page would be of those in India because of the markers listed above, but that won't be the case with Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Whittle Rock article and it should give you the markers listed there. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:17, 2 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Asking about this. Something went on off-site? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:21, 5 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Their username is very much a personal attack on ShakespeareFan00, and their editing shows that too. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:43, 5 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I unblocked them, except for editing that one userspace draft. I'll fully unblock them once they respond. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:17, 5 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hmmm...totally not obvious to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:21, 6 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

The thing that's suspicious to me is that how can a brand new user with only two global edits have a username of "Tour Evil Alter Ego" (which I suspect the "your" refers to ShakespeareFan00) not be intimidating ShakespeareFan00. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:42, 6 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

21:16, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello SHB2000! I was thinking about altering this file by adding a new symbol:

This is the new symbol:-

What do you think? Haoreima (talk) 12:25, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

It would be nice to add, but unfortunately, I'm not too sure how to do add it though. I could do it if it's an svg file through Inkscape, but this seems to be a png file :-(. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:28, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for reply! I will put this issue at Commons' village pump. I was once reluctant to do so because of a slightly relevant discrimination once happened with me in Simple English Wikipedia. :-) Haoreima (talk) 12:37, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

To make a complete row, I have to find three more symbols, among which I found two more:-

ancient Egyptian religion symbol

ancient Greek religion symbol

I need one more. Could you please discover one? Else, people in Commons may not be willing to help me. Haoreima (talk) 12:46, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

It's ok. I found it. The fourth is Celtic/Gallic religion. Haoreima (talk) 18:03, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Rastafari could be a good addition too. Gizza ^(roam) 23:30, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Can do it if you give me the svg file. Won't take too long. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:03, 9 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

If you get the svg file, will you revert the existing file or create a new file derived from the former one? Haoreima (talk) 05:04, 9 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Per c:COM:OVERWRITE, upload a new file. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:07, 9 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks! I will inform you as soon as I get that! :) Haoreima (talk) 12:40, 9 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

In an edit summary on Helsinki you asked "can someone check this paragraph that it's not duplicated from somewhere else?"

I think all kick scooter entries in Finland are copied more or less verbatim by User:Vkem (often without logging in) from my wordings in Turku. As I changed my wording, it usually propagated to their edits, with a significant lag (I assume they added it to some bot script, which they didn't update regularly).

While the copying infringes on my copyright and I don't like them copying my text in this way (no attribution or reference whatsoever), I am not going to make a fuzz about it.

The correction of grammar should of course be done in all the articles where the phrase can be found :-(

–LPfi (talk) 12:50, 9 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Aside from copyright, the problem is the same as with mobile phones in Nigeria: such detailed text suggests that the facts are valid locally, and I don't trust Vkem to have checked more than some of the points made. Attribution would be no issue for me without that aspect. –LPfi (talk) 12:56, 9 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for checking the kick scooter thing. :-) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 20:30, 9 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

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22:08, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Feel free to edit.

I had some things I was world-building with, but would appreciate some input from yourself and the other Australian contingent on Wikiovage. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:09, 4 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Pretty cool draft :-). I'm curious as to where you had gotten the name Androostun. Can't relate it to any Australian place name, and the closest I can think of is Adelaide – was it a made up one? The New Woomera one is interesting, and couldn't help but laugh at the vegemite reference ;-) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:12, 4 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Androoostun is a contraction of 'Andrews Town' and was developed specifically for the article. I'd imagined the Hibern Isles, to essentially have a more Celtic and Gaelic character (ie. Scots/Irish influences) then Nova Australis.

Well the other 'ration' item on early survery ships I should probably might mention would be the Soychkio sausage, which is a soy/bean/cereal based processed sausage. If you combine it with Vegeimite in a roll, you get the Dan'under variant on the Hot dog. :lol:

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:01, 4 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

lol. i'm kinda curious to see how the draft will turn out ;-) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:06, 4 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Well, I'm still world-building, and I'd appreciate it being a joint effort, so please feel free to edit. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:56, 4 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000: The draft is a little bit more mature. I'd really appreciate an Australian Wikivoyager leaving some comments on the talk page on whats missing or doesn't make sense. I've been wondering what I can have as "Ute" equivalent. My thinking was some sort of light-to cargo quadcopter or ultralight? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:31, 8 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

@ShakespeareFan00 Had a read of it, and I can't really see anything that's missing – looking good :-). As a suggestion, the external territories of Australia (Norfolk Island, Christmas Island, Cocos (Keeling) Islands) and possibly include the uninhabited ones such as Ashmore and Cartier Islands, Coral Sea Islands, or Heard Island and McDonald Islands could act like moons. Maybe a joke about the largely unrecognised w:Australian Antarctic Territory too. Don't know how to implement that though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:11, 14 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Generally Terrestrial Worlds, don't necessarily have more than 1 or 2 moons. I'll bear it in mind though.. Maybe one of the Moons is a Penal colony, or where they ship the people that bring in 'item zero' at the NQZ? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:46, 14 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I also challange you to work out where I got the 'Sydbourne' opera productions titles from ;) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:51, 14 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Is this a concern of relevance to a traveller?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZQ4rtTsAdE https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/politics/opposition-slams-victorian-government-over-triplezero-review/news-story/820b7ab4494c09cad435b31a99f26a5a

The basic concern expressed in media coverage seems to be that in Victoria. Triple Zero(000) response times might be longer than people expect.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:39, 16 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

@ShakespeareFan00 Not sure. I didn't know about that until now, as most of the news feed here in NSW is about the floods and the Russia-Ukraine invasion. Don't really have an opinion on it tbh. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:54, 17 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

17:11, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

I noticed your work on Glacier National Park, but you may have introduced a duplicate. A redirect of Glacier National Park to/from Glacier National Park (disambiguation) page and merge of links may be necessary or other disambiguation text between the two - see https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Travellers%27_pub#Are_these_duplicate_disambiguation_pages? Wolfgang8741 (talk) 17:04, 17 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Wolfgang8741 Apologies about that :-(. Seems to be fixed by Mx. Granger now. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:14, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

You lengthened this block from 2 hours to 3 days without giving a reason. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:36, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

per Wikivoyage:How to handle unwanted edits, the first block should be three days. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:42, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

We have latitude to give a briefer block first if we want to. Had that user come back and continued disrupting, they would have gotten a 3-day block quickly. Now, I arguably look a little silly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:50, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Maybe in Australia. There is no such rule in the U.S. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:30, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I thought that was an internationally agreed term. Doing some more research, there seems to be conflicting definitions on how many are needed for a city, but I've never heard a city of 1.5k as a city. However, Wikipedia seems to say that in the US, a city can have a minimum between 1,500 and 5,000. I'll revert my edit. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:35, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Oh I've noticed you've copyedited it. Thanks for doing that. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:36, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I don't think Wikipedia is right. Different states have different definitions. In New York, the Village of Hempstead has over 55,000 inhabitants, the Hamlet of Riverhead has around 15,000, and the City of Sherill has just over 3,000. Look at w:List of cities in Alaska, too. The smallest one had 21 inhabitants as of the 2020 Census. See also w:Kupreanof, Alaska. It's an incorporated city. Someone needs to edit the conflicted statement on Wikipedia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:02, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I just looked at your link. You misread it: "Common population definitions for an urban area (city or town) range between 1,500 and 50,000 people, with most U.S. states using a minimum between 1,500 and 5,000 inhabitants.[13][14] Some jurisdictions set no such minima.[15]" You had to pay attention to the word "most" and/or read the next sentence. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:03, 18 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

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Xeno (WMF) (talk) 04:15, 21 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Swept in from the pub

As you probably know, I'm very active here, and that's because I, just like most of you do, edit this travel guide in my leisure time. But these days, I've been endlessly obsessed with the one user from Queensland that we all know. And I can probably confidently say that 95 percent of my recent rollbacks used are reverting him, and it's become a bad habit – and it's just as unproductive, and we all know that there's better things to do than rollbacking copyvios and doing /64 blocks. And then there's the case of an LTA who I now feel like an absolute idiot into thinking they were a good faith user. And my rant could go on.

On top of that, real life issues mean that I can no longer edit as much as I used to, and so just a quick note to let you all know that I won't be much active in the near future – for at least the end of this year.

With that being said, you will still see me make an edit now and then, add some coordinates, and probably do a couple of rollbacks on edits by Brendan, and probably close vfd nominations. I'm not leaving forever, and I do hope I can come back and become more active when things have settled, but until then, I wish the best for the community :-)

--SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:08, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm sure we'll all be happy to see you whenever it works out. Who knows, maybe we'll be lucky and that will even be before the end of the year.

(Don't blame yourself for believing people to be good until thoroughly proven otherwise. That's a sign that you're a good person!) WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:00, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Have a great real life and we'll still be here whenever you drop by. Thanks for all the great work you do! Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:13, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Recharge your batteries, SHB. We all hope that you'll feel better soon and if you are up to freely giving your labor and expertise, we'd love to have it. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:50, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks to all of you :) I'm not gone forever tho, so you'll still see me popping around. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:26, 15 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks from me too for what you've done. Good luck with your life, and I'll be glad to see you here, regardless of whether you are going to do much or little. –LPfi (talk) 10:49, 15 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

16:01, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Thought you should know that when updating Main Page/Photo credits you are supposed to use the uncropped image not the cropped banner. Tai123.123 (talk) 02:41, 22 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Why though? Since we're featuring the derivative work, per the licensing requirements, we're supposed to use the derivative work – meaning attributing both the original copyright holder and the author of the derivative work. The original copyright holder has no control over the derivative work and so technically not giving attribution to the derivative would theoretically be a copyvio. However, most of us who cropped the photos won't really mind too much, but it's good to get into the habit of correct attribution. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:53, 22 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I don’t know enough about copyright to answer your question but if you look at previous revisions of the page it has featured uncropped images since 2013. If you want this changed go ask on a talk page or the pub. Tai123.123 (talk) 18:10, 22 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I am not aware of any discussion on this, and the instructions for updating say little. Cropping may not reach the threshold of originality needed for copyright, so the only copyright holder may be the author of the original photo (and possibly those of photographed works). That copyright holder needs to be attributed, but they may not like how we cropped their image – and anyway, as separate image, the original is often nicer – so showing their version makes sense. I don't know whether that's the reasoning behind the practice, just trying to come up with a plausible explanation. –LPfi (talk) 11:12, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

But we have no control over the license used here, and if the copyright holder doesn't like the way we cropped it, too bad. CC BY SA licenses are irrevocable. Cropping is still a derivative work and per the license, it does not matter whether it's a simple crop, or a large photoshop of the original, and as such, we have to attribute both the original copyright holder and the author of the derivative work. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:31, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

If the crop is below the threshold of originality it does not get a copyright and thus it can be used with no licence from the person who did the crop; the only relevant licence is then that of the underlying work. Out of courtesy we should still attribute the person who did the crop, but out of courtesy we should also give credit for the work the original author created, especially if the crop is odd in some way. At least some licences require you to tell about changes you made, so this is a reason to somehow notice that it wasn't the original that we used. But, anyway, I think this is enough reasoning from my part, unless we start a discussion on how we should attribute people regarding these images, and such a discussion should probably be had in the Pub. –LPfi (talk) 13:32, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I am also in doubt about that matter. But I have no intention of touting or promotion. So, I used the links from the Google Maps (which are the primary source for their location and basic information). I am not sure if all these sacred sites have their own official websites or not. Haoreima (talk) 08:41, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Another thing, I still don't know how to extract coordinates (latitudes and longitudes) from the Google Maps. Haoreima (talk) 08:42, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yeah tbh since about a quarter of the active Wikivoyage community knows you, it's obvious it's no form of promotion but if the sites don't have their own websites, what you can do is just link the relevant city article and then add the link from that city article. For some article that resembles something like that, an article I've recently been working on is Tasmanian national parks, and in particular take a look at the national parks (though this section violates WV:IP) and the historic sites sections (which is currently a work in progress). It's not perfect, but the point is that they are not directly linked from the topic article, but rather mentioned in all the relevant destination articles. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:53, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Haoreima Also regarding the coordinates, it's actually pretty easy to do. I found it difficult in my early days of contributing to this site, but I quickly got the hang of it. Special:Diff/4414347 is my latest example of adding coordinates, in which I entered -43.73314 and 170.0952 into my lat and long parameters.

The first thing you'll need to note is that Google Maps won't allow you to pinpoint the exact coordinates at once. What I do is I pinpoint them a bit off to the side, in which this case, I pinpointed it on -43.73314, 170.094996 and then adjusted it to the right a bit. There is also a good guide at Wikivoyage:Dynamic maps Expedition. Let me know if you need any more help. I'd be happy to explain :-) Also while I'm at it, there's a good tool when using the listing editor too which all you need to do is pinpoint the spot and then you've got your coords. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:19, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the suggestion of getting latitudes and longitudes. I understand now. But about the first reply you told me, I still have a little confusion. Could you do one for me so that I may be able to understand properly? After that, I will handle the remaining. Haoreima (talk) 13:09, 23 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Haoreima: Sorry for the late reply. I did it on the second one using Imphal as an example. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:44, 29 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for doing that! Since Imphal is a large place, it has many sacred sites of Panthoibi herself. Shall I add all in the list in the same way like you added? Haoreima (talk) 12:23, 29 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Go ahead and add them in whichever city, town or destination it is located in. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:48, 29 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

19:55, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

I think it'd be better to reserve "type=vicinity" to destinations that are in the vicinity. I don't know whether the designation used is visible anywhere at the moment, but you never know. Before the last rewrite of the template, hovering over a marker would say something like "show map for this vicinity marker"; something like that could be added somewhere by somebody. Instead, if you want a red marker, write "type=red" (choose among colours listed). Maybe that requires adding "red" to the show parameter of the dynamic map, but having to do that is not counter-intuitive, we just need to add it to the documentation. –LPfi (talk) 09:01, 30 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Better yet, we should have a standard on what markers to use for "other destinations". Have we had one? –LPfi (talk) 09:02, 30 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I use "type=other" for "other destinations", because it seems intuitive. —Granger (talk · contribs) 10:48, 30 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Intuitive but also confusing, because the markers on the map have the same color as type=listing. So if you use both, you get 2x a green marker with nr 1 on the map. FredTC (talk) 11:07, 30 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

I've always thought that we were meant to use "city" for cities and "vicinity" for listings in "other destinations". iirc, in my early days at this site, I saw a mix of both no type (which defaults to listing) and vicinity. I've just been standardizing them since. -301501 Using other could work, but the reason why I thought we used the dark red color was to distinguish them from the normal forestgreen color. A quick look on Special:PermaLink/4129235#Other destinations tells me we've been using it for quite some time. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:22, 30 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

Special:PermaLink/4276092 too. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:30, 30 March 2022 (UTC)Reply

@FredTC: I rarely or never specify "type=listing" (though I sometimes leave it in by default). When I list "other destinations", it's usually in a region or country article, so the main types are "type=other" and "type=city". —Granger (talk · contribs) 08:36, 1 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Mx. Granger: I checked a few countries from Middle East and already nr 3 (Iran) would have double green marker numbers if "vicinity" would be changed into "other". Something strange happened when I was trying to check, after making the change, using "Show preview" the markers in the text turned green, but the markers on the map were unchanged. After using "Publish changes" the markers on the map turned green, causing a situation with 2x a green "1" an 2x a green "2". I also checked the other countries of Middle East and they would not have that problem, so you are not at all the only one "rarely or never" creating the situation. But still I think that someone not knowing about this, could create situations with double numbers on the map. The {{listing|...}} always had green markers and that should stay that way. But I think a {{marker|type=other|...}} and also a {{listing|type=other|...}} should not create green markers. --FredTC (talk) 12:13, 1 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

The problem in the Iran article is the embassies, which should not be listed there. Embassy listings should be in city articles, not country articles. It's also worth noting that Iran currently has double red markers (for "type=go" and "type=vicinity") – slightly different shades of red, but that's not obvious unless you're paying close attention. So it seems to me the Iran article is an argument for using green rather than red for "other destinations". But maybe choosing some other color would be best. —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:56, 1 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Mx. Granger: Yes, I agree that the embassies should not be in the country article. But then there still is a color problem. The colors come from Module:TypeToColor, so, if we want a different color for "other" because it is equal to "listing" and also a different color for "vicinity" because there is too little difference with the color of "go", a change to that module must be made. I have put all colors that are used for existing "type=" values in the regionlist below and made suggestions for "other" and "vicinity". To change the module is simple, I see no edit restrictions. But I think it should be discussed somewhere first, because the module is heavily used. What do you think? --FredTC (talk) 13:35, 2 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Your suggestions seem fine to me, but I agree that it merits wider discussion. Probably at the pub? —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:12, 2 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yes. One thing to keep in mind is accessibility. Are these colours "web safe" (no real problem any more, I think, but one might want to check) and distinguishable for those with colour sight issues? –LPfi (talk) 19:01, 2 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

A late response but to @Mx. Granger, I am confused by your edit summary in Special:Diff/4421171. Namely, what "consensus"? As I pointed out some examples on some high profile pages, these have been in use for a long time. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:21, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Also more examples: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:36, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

The site is currently inconsistent: currently, some articles use "vicinity" markers for other destinations, while other articles use "other" markers for other destinations. I don't think we have consensus about which way to resolve this inconsistency, so I ask that you hold off on making mass changes until we get consensus. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:37, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:20, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

21:01, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

19:44, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for reading. Xeno (WMF) 02:24, 13 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

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Hi, SHB2000. Great work as always, but I don't agree with your reasoning here. It's completely reasonable to mention an airport in another country if it's the closest and it's not that hard to get across the border. My issue with that listing is solely that a lat number is given, as I don't want it to have geo and distort the focus of the article's map. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:19, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yeah I should've been more clearer in diff 4430951. The problem with this one was that this editor has been adding airports kilometres away from a destination, completely unrelated and it seems to me they only added that because it appeared close on a map. Of course, there isn't an issue with listing an airport if it's the primary way of entering the destination. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:46, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

It's also fine to mention that airport and link to the most relevant article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:49, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Sorry to butt in, but in the case of Malabo airport, it's not just that it isn't in Nigeria, it's that it is not even on the African continent. One would have to fly from Malabo to the city in question. Also, Equatorial Guinea is a notoriously difficult country to get into, and its airline is not permitted to fly into many countries because if its safety record. This is not like flying to Buffalo to get to the Niagara Peninsula, which would make a lot of sense.Ground Zero (talk) 02:57, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Got it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:03, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

It's also worth noting that Roovinn had trouble figuring out the visa regulations for EG because per Equatorial Guinea#Get in, it really is confusing. Doesn't really serve the traveller by listing it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:08, 17 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

23:12, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

That looks like it was my fault. I probably confused Rivers State with Cross River State. Thanks gor fixing it. Ground Zero (talk) 11:16, 23 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ground Zero No problems, and apologies for my harsh sounding edit summary. I think we both know that someone who's responsible for me getting pissed when something's in the wrong spot. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:38, 23 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

No apology necessary. I understand your frustration, and it was careless of me not to check the location on the map, so I deserved to be called out for it. Ground Zero (talk) 18:53, 23 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

22:56, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

19:34, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Hey,

you removed the headline "in the city center" from the Budget eats in the Bucharest article.

For the reader it's helpful to see that all the following entries are in the city center so that the tourist does not need to go to the outskirts to have a budget dish. Flightnavigator (talk) 14:07, 4 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

That is only useful if there are listings mentioned all over a city, but if there are no listings mentioned outside the city centre, then you do not need a double section header IMO. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 14:12, 4 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

I think this was a good way to handle it – if all budget places really are in the centre. Flightnavigator, is that so, or is it just the mentioned ones that are there? In that case perhaps "all these" instead of "all of them". –LPfi (talk) 08:30, 5 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

the advantage of this subheadline is, that somebody else could simply add the subheadline ====near the city center:==== for a restaurant that is near the city center. Or for restaurants which are in another interesting area. Flightnavigator (talk) 08:51, 5 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

The Mediawiki heading styles make little difference between H3 and H4 headings, which makes them confusing. I think the non-heading text is better for these specifications, at least in many cases. As long as the lists are short (4–5 items?) it is enough that you can click Budget in the menu, and you see the rest when looking at that section. –LPfi (talk) 09:14, 5 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

15:23, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

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It's not true that country articles don't have a 'Go next' section. It's only not included in the country template...

As in the Israel article you indeed removed useful information for the reader and traveller.

Still an island can have ferries and low-priced flights to other countries, that is good to know to plan the further travel route. Just think about the growing number of digital nomads.

Even though Iceland is an expensive country, it doesn't cost much to fly out of it. Flightnavigator (talk) 10:33, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

It would be worth revisiting Wikivoyage talk:Country article template#Go next, which was never concluded, despite a consensus in favour being either achieved or at least achievable.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:23, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi @SHB2000!

I am @Vyolltsa from the Wikimedians of Albanian Language User Group. This year, we are hosting the Summer of Wikivoyage Edit-a-thon in the South-East area of Albania to write about different travel destinations of Albania and Kosovo in English, May 20-22. Also, we are inviting everyone to join us online here, Saturday and Sunday, at 09:30-17:00 (GMT+2) Time Zone.

Could you please update the Albania and Kosovo Expedition pages for 2022? --Vyolltsa (talk) 07:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Thank you!Reply

@Vyolltsa Great to hear that. Happy to to update the stats. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:39, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

@SHB2000, thank you so much! Vyolltsa (talk) 07:42, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Did an update today, though the links in the bottom table no longer works. I'll do another update around 2022-05-23 after the edit-a-thon has concluded. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:02, 13 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

18:58, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Prompted by this edit I wonder what people in general would recognize as a city. If Kópavogur with 35,966 inhabitants is "far from" being recognised as a city, then many Finnish province capitals, such as Kajaani, Kotka, Mikkeli and Vaasa might not be recognised as such either (Kajaani has 36,500). When starting editing Wikivoyage, I thought it was odd to call Finnish towns "cities", but I have been thinking the usage just differs around the world. My original thought was that Helsinki would be the only one qualifying, and this seems to confirm that interpretation, that towns with 50,000–150,000 inhabitants should just be called towns (except for the article class – the 100-inhabitants Kilpisjärvi has a "city" article). –LPfi (talk) 12:22, 4 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

It really depends on what the classification is. I usually call a settlement that has fewer than 10k a town, a settlement between 10k-50k a small city, 50k-200k a regional city, while anything over 200k as a major city. But when "city" is used alone, I'd tend to think of a settlement over 50k. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:27, 4 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

If you don't mind my interjecting a comment: We've discussed this before. I think Australia may have some clearer definitions of "city" by population than other countries. I agree with LPfi's point of view on this. Whether it's a small city or not is somewhat contextual. In the Northeastern U.S., it would be. In Iceland, I bet it wouldn't be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:47, 4 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: Wouldn't be what? The context is that we now say (about Reykjavík, in Nordic history):

"Iceland's oldest settlement and by far the only thing most (Europeans) would recognize as a "city" in Iceland."

and SHB2000 commented:

"it's not just Europeans – the next most populous city in Iceland is Kópavogur which only has a population of 35,966, which is tiny compared to Reykjavík"

So we now say that Kópavogur with 36,000 inhabitants by far wouldn't be recognised as a city. If 10–50k would make it a small city, how is it by far not recognised as a city at all? In US it would also be a small city, but in Iceland it wouldn't be a small city, but would it still be a city? Or aren't small cities cities? I am really confused now.

(There might be issues about Icelandic cities not looking like cities, but if that's the case, SHB2000's comment still doesn't make sense to me.)

–LPfi (talk) 08:24, 5 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Perspectives on this really vary by country (and maybe by region). A settlement of 30,000 in Uruguay is considered a city, but put the same settlement in southeastern China and it would be considered a small town. For this reason, I disagree with the linked edit – there is no universal standard of what constitutes a city. —Granger (talk · contribs) 09:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

To reply to "Wouldn't be what?": Wouldn't be a small city, as opposed to a large one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:31, 8 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

In the United Kingdom, various settlements are officially classified as being a "town" or a "city". Historically towns with a cathedral were cities, but that classification has long since dissappeared. As an example, as part of Queen Elizabeth's plainum jubilee celebrations, six British towns and two towns in Britihs overseas territories were upgraded to cities. See here. Martinvl (talk) 21:42, 20 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Fascinating, thanks! Wow, Stanley, Falkland Islands as a city! And this:

The new cities can expect a boost to local communities and the opening up of new opportunities for people who live there, the Cabinet Office said. It cited research that suggested previous winner Perth, in Scotland, saw the local economy expand by 12% in the decade it was granted city status, after it put them on the international map as a place to do business. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:54, 21 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'd never thought that the Falklands would ever have cities ;-). This is fascinating news! SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:59, 21 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

hey,

i thought i forgot the splurge headline in the my first Luxembourg (city) edit and brought it back, because I didn't see, that you took it out.

is there a rule, that there should be no empty splurge header? imo having it rather encourages people to add listings.

without it, it looks like the splurge header is missing imo. Flightnavigator (talk) 13:08, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Grouping eat or sleep listings into price range is entirely optional, and when there are empty optional section headers, it does not give a good look on Wikivoyage. If someone does find a splurge restaurant, then they can add it back, but until then, it sits of no use. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:02, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

I am not sure about that. In a place with few restaurants, we need no subheadings, but I am sure there are splurge restaurants in Luxembourg, and I am sure some travellers want to eat at them. Thus there is a deficiency, which we should want to make obvious to readers and editors alike. Passer-by editors won't know that there should be a splurge heading, so they won't add it. –LPfi (talk) 11:56, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

If editors are adding it just so "someone else" to add content, that unfortunately will not happen, based on an experiment I did at the end of last year with MoS tags, with an active contributor. In this case, an empty splurge section doesn't help travellers, and hoping for passer-by editors or someone else to do it is even worse in my opinion. Either leave the section and add a restaurant, or don't include it – it's as simple as that. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:08, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

If it "does not give a good look" so be it. If I write a stub, I don't want it to look like a guide. Let's have that ugly empty section there to warn readers the article hasn't been written properly (yet). It is an easy way to warn readers – and for a place like Luxembourg, I am sure somebody will fill it in in not too many years. –LPfi (talk) 11:49, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

A long time ago I started the Amusement parks topic..

However, outside of the UK .. I didn't know that much about smaller but notable parks.

Would you be able to consider adding some for your region, or at least add some listings to the relevant city pages with a cross reference?

Another consideration is that I wasn't sure if Sea World was an Amusement Park or a Zoo for Wikivoyage purposes. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:46, 18 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Amusement parks seems to cover all the important theme parks that I known of, except that there's no link to Gold Coast/Northern suburbs, where all the theme parks are located in. I'll add a link to that in just a moment. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:30, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Done. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:31, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

None in Western Australia then? Hmm... Also I am suprised Australia hadn't got it's own Diggerland (for context- https://www.diggerland.com/ ) yet :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:24, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

@ShakespeareFan00: Unfortunately, I haven't been to WA yet. I've been wanting to for some time, but never really got the chance to. I did find a link to the WA tourism website though, which has all the popular amusement parks. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:40, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hmm not seeing any on the scale of the 'resort' parks on the Gold Coast though.. hmmm.. Thanks for the updates. I would also possibly suggest adding an explainer about Luna Park in the relevant pages. It's older than the modern resorts IIRC? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:49, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yep. There were some celebrations in Milsons Point two years ago when Luna Park turned 85. The Melbourne one is even older, and it's turning 110 later this year. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:34, 21 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

It didn't occur to me at all, which is kind of crazy. Thank you for taking care of it. I'm on the road now, and don't have much time for Wikivoyage. I will not forget next time. Ground Zero (talk) 03:44, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ground Zero: Not a problem. It's a weird thing with templates, and I wish we had a bot like CommonsDelinker but removes templates instead. Enjoy traveling though :-) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:47, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

00:21, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

20:29, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

02:46, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes it can in the rare cases in which it improves articles, especially when someone else takes responsibility for it. Edit warring over that hurts the traveller. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:53, 11 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: In Special:Diff/4465327, I removed "The colorful street art, which can be seen on one of the islands". That's the typical kind of content he adds to country/region articles. If we let this one go, then you could argue in leaving all his trivial edits that we usually rollback. You were right to restore the capitalization error he fixed, but if we let the trivial content stay, you could argue in keeping all of his articles for every farming town in the midst of nowhere. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:59, 11 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

No, only trivial improvements stay, not useless articles that may contain copyvio or racist remarks to boot. But I hadn't noticed I had restored "The colorful street art, which can be seen on one of the islands". That needs to go, but the capitalization should be corrected. Sorry for not paying enough attention. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:24, 11 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

No problems. We all make that mitsake. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:28, 11 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

*mistake --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:29, 11 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

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16:59, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello SHB2000! Could you please create a banner for Classical Meitei from this: commons:File:Numit_Kappa.jpg? --Haoreima (talk) 06:38, 15 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Haoreima: Done SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:59, 15 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'd answer your question with "it's most likely", you know. Ibaman (talk) 12:02, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Okay, good to have confirmation. Will rollback the IP edits. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:03, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

20:18, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello SHB2000, ArticCynda is accusing you (via Kaspiysk, and also via Murmansk Oblast) and Ibaman (via Murmansk Oblast) of Politically inspired vandalism (Dutch: Politiek geïnspireerd vandalisme). In both cases IP-edits were reverted by you and Ibaman. AC is mentioning this at the Dutch and French Travellers pub with wording that doen not describe the edits involved very accurately. Could you take a look at these actions? FredTC (talk) 01:53, 26 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

@FredTC: Thanks for the notice. I'll take a look and reply to both of them. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:57, 26 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Done. Replied on both. I do also have a log if you want to see what the edits looked like. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:14, 26 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Where do you find them. Even people from Mount Gambier, Port Lincoln or Alice Springs that I have met had a pretty much general Australian accent. The dog2 (talk) 16:59, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

According to w:Rhoticity in English#Australia (where I even found out that some parts of South Australia have a rhotic South Australian accent), along the coastline (outside Adelaide, Mt Gambier or major cities). I suppose it's similar when you go to Otago or Southland in South Island where in major cities like Invercargill or Dunedin where you'll hear the standard NZ accent by most. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:58, 27 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

20:03, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

19:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

13:03, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

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19:25, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

1. Special:Diff/4484257
2. Special:Diff/4484260
3. this very edit

Ty in advance! Twsabin (talk) 12:28, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Done. Did you want me to only revdel the IP? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:38, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thank you, yes. Twsabin (talk) 12:39, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

RamzyM (WMF) 01:39, 18 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

23:00, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

I would say "per the choice of articles to edit, it seems very likely", oh yes. Hope you're doing well, too. Ibaman (talk) 12:40, 20 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Okay good to have some conformation. Shall we block then? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:41, 20 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Do with this what you wish, but I just want to tell you: the non-standard green text you use for quotes is more or less unreadable for me, with my normal settings. I can read it by highlighting it (getting the colours in reverse) or doing some other tricks, but I might not bother to every time, and when I encounter it in a few posts after each other at Commons (where it seems to have gotten common), I often leave that thread unread. I don't know from where it comes, it seems to be marked just as "<span style="font-family:Georgia; color:green">", which I doubt you are typing in each time. –LPfi (talk) 14:05, 20 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

@LPfi: I'm typing that each time. If there was something that I could substitute, I'd have used <span style="color:#006400; font-family:Georgia">text</span>, but there is no template for that so I use the slightly simpler code soon to be depreciated. But if it's a bit unreadable, I'll try and not to use it. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:08, 21 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

I had a rough night and I'm still having a rough time, so I'm probably more irritable than usual. Nothing personal; I just don't like that redirect and would like for you to understand that I've been on this site and its predecessor since probably 2004 (I'd have to look at my pre-registered history of IPs), and trying to hold me to some protocol you think is set in stone and arguing on the basis of rules you take to be inflexible is not a good way to go. Asking whether you'd agree to a deletion is not a violation of protocol and posting to the pub about most anything you'd like to call attention to are not violations of protocol. Those are both common things that have been done for as long as I can remember. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:35, 20 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: I do apologize if I went overly hasty with nitpicking policy and also apologies for the late response – don't know how I missed this (I think it conflicted with Ibaman's). I guess we have different opinions but that's why votes for deletion (aka Articles for deletion / Requests for deletion / Deletion requests etc.) exists. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:28, 22 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

You're absolutely right. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:28, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Are you sure a listing somewhere isn't warranted? Per w:Gaddige Kenddganeshwara, it's a 17th-century temple, and photos I found in a web search look nice. Unfortunately, the 3 photos on Commons suck. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: A lot of temples in Kerala were constructed before the 17th century. Architecturally, it may look nice, but most other Hindu temples in Kerala look similar. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:22, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

OK, if you're sure, I'll defer to you. To an American, anything that old that's at least somewhat pretty seems worth a mention, but I've been to India and know how old continuous civilization has been there. Varanasi, for example, I believe I remember is a very old city. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:27, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Before I went to India, anything that was over 150 years really fascinated me as there are few structures older than 200 years and whilst there were many Indigenous sites, a lot of them were destroyed during colonial times. Until I went to India where I visited temples that were built in the early 12th or 13th century – completely changed how I thought of "historic". Sometimes "historic" in the Australian or American sense does make me laugh (and I'm sure you'd have heard of the Windsor Castle joke). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:32, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Which one is that? Yeah, London is quite historic, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:58, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Well, an American tourist was outside Windsor Castle and admired the classic structure. But they were so bothered by the noise of the nearby Heathrow Airport that they exclaimed "Why did they build the castle so close to the airport?". But yeah, Europe has a lot of nice historic places. I've only really gotten the opportunity to visit France and England's historic sites, but I've yet to visit Italy's, Spain's, Hungary's – and a lot of other European countries' historic sites. I do plan to visit Italy and Spain sometime within the next few years though, hopefully when airfares aren't ridiculously high and travelling 16,000 km across the globe isn't easy ;-). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:06, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

No, it isn't. I laughed out loud at the joke. Ancient Roman ruins are all over the place in Italy, and there are also a lot of Etruscan sites and relics and Greek ruins in parts of Italy where those civilizations used to be. I'll tell you a story about my first visit to Arezzo another day. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:15, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

I just want to say, I hope they built it at some point. When I was living in Adelaide, I always thought it would be nice to have a HSR to Melbourne. And in fact, Sydney-Canberra-Melbourne is actually the right distance to have HSR. It would have made the journey possible in 3 hours. Unfortunately, I don't think there is the political will to make it happen, so for now, Australians will just have to watch from the distance and marvel at the convenience of HSR travel in China, Japan and Europe. The dog2 (talk) 16:28, 25 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Until very recently, it was a dream but things have really taken a turn since Dominic Perrottet became the NSW premier. Whilst a Brisbane-Sydney-Melbourne corridor is far-fetched at this stage, construction for the Sydney-Central Coast-Newcastle is likely to start soon. From a recent 320-page document highlighting the future of high-speed rail, at the moment, there are only plans to build high-speed rail between Sydney-Newcastle, Sydney-Canberra, Sydney-Wollongong and maybe Sydney-Bathurst but those were announced by the state government. I believe Albanese does have plans to eventually build this project, but I believe the Sydney-Newcastle route will be the main priority, at least for now. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:14, 26 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hopefully it's more than just talk this time. I must say I found the high-speed trains in China, Japan and Taiwan quite pleasant to use when I visited those countries, it would certainly be nice for Australians to have that as an option. My hope is that one day you will have a line from Cairns all the way down to Melbourne along the east coast, and perhaps from Melbourne to Adelaide. The dog2 (talk) 20:18, 26 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Cairns or Townsville seem unlikely (not even by 2050), but it might as well be built by the Queensland government instead of the federal govt. But I do hope they eventually convert the entire Bruce Highway into a motorway (I believe it's one of the Queensland Government's long-term projects). Regarding a Melbourne-Adelaide HSR, I personally think a full freeway is more viable in the short- and mid-term (currently only 271 km of ≈800 km is a freeway), but who knows whether Adelaide will eventually be connected by HSR? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:58, 27 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

19:27, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

21:22, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

19:50, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

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Just a note: bus is buss in Swedish (buses: bussar), so it is easy to get the double s there when one is a bit absent-minded. Should still be corrected, of course, thanks for that. –LPfi (talk) 13:21, 9 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Just to confuse matters, the form busses is a conjugation of the verb to bus (also bussing, bussed, presumably because by eye busing/bused ought to be pronounced "byoozing/byoozed").--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:48, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

It's really why we should've all adopted Webster's reforms ;-) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:52, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Fuck no! ;-) Diversity is beautiful.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:57, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

They are more logical though... I mean, look how ugly manoeuvre, south west, or musick is spelled compared to maneuver, southwest or music ;-) – or maybe I'm just salty that I screwed up pieces of code because I accidentally spelled "center" as "centre" a few times (wasn't too hard of a fix though). Thankfully the world got together and dropped the k in the last one. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:17, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I am really thankful to automatic indentation of code, or syntax highlighters (which serve the same purpose not only as side effect). They prevent misspelling keywords. –LPfi (talk) 13:24, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Me too. I've probably saved hours due to automatic indentation. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 13:26, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I won't deny Webster spellings are (marginally) more phonetic, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. British spelling usually retains the etymology of a word better, making the rich and global origins of our vocabulary more obvious.

And regarding language diversity, I love how the French word [auto]bus (plural: [auto]bus) has been borrowed by most European languages, but each language has used its own grammar and spelling rules to impart a unique twist: English bus (pl. buses), Swedish buss (pl. bussar), German Bus (pl. Busse), Welsh bws (pl. bysiau), Spanish autobús (pl. autobuses), Romanian autobuz (pl. autobuze), Turkish otobüs (otobüsler)... Same for so many words relating to modern technology.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:23, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

But the British also did make some changes during the 19th century, like changing all -ize words to -ise or program to programme just to make English slightly closer to French. Mais j'aime le français pour la même raison ;-). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:36, 10 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi there... we had a minor edit collision on article Mogollon Rim. I was doing a sizeable content addition while you were adding a banner. Being someone what, not sure of the procedure here or if it would otherwise alert you, so thought I'd reach out. Didn't mean to stomp on your edit; I put your picture in as a comment in case you/someone wants to revert to it. Regarding my banner selection, not sure if it meets the size specs (tho it did seem to crop it nicely), however the scene with the trees imho reflects the area better (typing as an Arizona resident). thanks , and appreciate the guidance you've given BrianM0000 (talk) 08:43, 13 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi BrianM0000, feel free to replace the banner if you want – just make sure the banner is in a 7:1 ratio (I'll crop it to a 7:1 ratio if needed). While I have visited Petrified Forest NP before, I don't know whole lot about Eastern Arizona and you obviously know better than I do. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:46, 13 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

You said that "given that Chinese is more widely spoken in Christmas Island, and the fact that C comes before M, I think it makes sense to put the Chinese translation before the Malay". However, in Talk Chinese isn't mentioned:

"As a territory of Australia, English is the most common language spoken on Christmas Island, but is not universal. Many older residents speak Malay as a first language. However, unlike Cocos Island, all signs are in English."

If Chinese is important, something should be said about who speak it. –LPfi (talk) 15:12, 13 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm not too sure; my info is from the encyclopedia, but I'll check the ABS to see whether the encyclopedia was right. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 00:13, 14 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

21:09, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Hey SHB2000, I merged Concord and Lincoln (Massachusetts), but can't figure out how to get mapshape to include both towns. Could you lend a hand here? Thank you. Ground Zero (talk) 12:44, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Exactly. Thank you. Ground Zero (talk) 12:46, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Not a problem :-). Just a handy tip from me: if you need some help with some simple stuff about maps, I'd recommend using Southeastern New South Wales and its subregions like the Snowy Mountains or the Sapphire Coast as a guide. I learned how to do this using Berlin and Singapore as guides, but now that I've mostly mastered using mapshapes and mapmasks, I wouldn't recommend them. Regards, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:56, 21 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

00:13, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I believe your conduct in the Hall starnom is unbecoming of an admin. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:50, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Excuse me? I don't know why I need to "watch myself", when I did not flout any bright-line policies. Maybe I should say your conduct is unbecoming of a bureaucrat, but I won't because this has absolutely nothing to do with user rights. It would've been no different if I had promoted this weren't I an admin, but that is not the point. Great that you stand by all your remarks, including your false accusations. Apart from claiming I promoted it because you were on vacation, now you claim I was edit warring. How many times did I revert you? Two. Were they on different pages? Yes, so that makes it one each. A single revert on two pages is NOT edit warring and certainly not per w:WP:WAR, m:Edit war, or Wikivoyage:Edit war. It's a real pity how you continued to spew false accusations after I told you about it. Again, please rethink what you type before you hit the reply button – because your conduct was clearly unacceptable and has made Wikivoyage a more hostile and unwelcoming place. You are the one that needs to watch their conduct. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:26, 25 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

You honestly thought you had a consensus to promote that article to star? If you really did, you need to rethink what consensus means and what it means for an article to be made a star, which should really require unanimity except in very unusual cases of really clear unreasonableness. It's hard for me to accept that you didn't mean to pull a fast one on me and the site, but if you didn't, you have some thinking to do. And yes, for you to revert my reversion of an absolutely irregular promotion to star status constitutes edit warring. Instead, you should have accepted that you were in the wrong. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:46, 26 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

And yes, for you to revert my reversion of an absolutely irregular promotion to star status constitutes edit warring.

You completely missed the point about what is edit warring. Edit warring simply means continually hitting the undo button multiple times or as defined by Wikipedia, "when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions". Hitting it once on two different pages doesn't constitute as "edit warring". Had I reverted ThunderingTyphoons! and LPfi's reverts, then it would have, but I did not. I advise you read w:WP:EDITWAR, m:Edit war, and Wikivoyage:Edit war before making accusations of edit warring. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:33, 26 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I understand you are frustrated, but this is a storm in a water glass that shouldn't be allowed to escalate. If what is needed to prevent that is stepping back for a few days, then please do that. I think what needs to be said has been said, and if there is something more to be said it should be said after sleeping on it. –LPfi (talk) 06:46, 26 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hello. I just went through the Stay safe section of this article removing a great excess of Captain Obvious advice that isn't specific to Rockingham. Of course, info about specific neighbourhoods and the curious problem of grannies with a death wish is all useful and should be kept!

I left all the wildlife information alone, but again it strikes me as probably being pretty generic to Australia. Would you mind checking this section, and removing info that could just as easily go in the Stay safe sections of the state or country articles? Thanks, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

@ThunderingTyphoons!: I took a quick look at it. I don't know a whole lot about WA, I've never been there before (I know a lot more about Norway than I do about WA (factoring out the fact that I did a great road trip from Oslo to Tromsø back in 2018...)), and I don't have any intentions of going there within the near future but I can confirm that a whole lot of it is pretty generic and not very specific to that specific area – that sort of content would better fit go in Western Australia or Australia. I'll remove all Captain Obvious content just in a moment. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:21, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Done I removed everything that I felt was generic and not specific to Rockingham but I left the jellyfish and octopus advice because I have no idea what the situation is like in WA. If it's similar to the situation in 13°S Qld, then there's merit leaving it but otherwise I think that should also go. @Graham87:, given you know the area much better than I do, is there anything else in "Stay safe" that sounds obvious and not very specific to Rockingham? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:27, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, I figured that you wouldn't have to know a lot about Western Australia for this. You're Australian, and if the advice also applies to your neck of the woods, or at least to places a lot closer to you than Rockingham, it doesn't belong in any particular city article. Cheers. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:30, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Definitely. Some of the wildlife content does strike me as dumb given that Rockingham doesn't appear to have large open green spaces or national parks in the middle of the city (a la Lane Cove National Park or Burleigh Head National Park) and the only reasonably large green space seems to be on the other side of the Kwinana Freeway so that advice, even if it was specific to the area, would go in South West (Western Australia). Cheers, SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:37, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Just wow ... I've removed all but the last bit of the "Stay safe" section. I've also fixed its location ... it's a southern suburb of Perth; it officially marks Perth's southern boundary but Mandurah is almost coterminous with Perth these days. Graham87 (talk) 11:33, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I thought the same too. When I first looked at Rockingham on OSM, it looked more like an outer suburb / satellite city kind of like how Campbelltown or Sydney/Brooklyn (both are around 60 km from Sydney CBD) but still a part of Sydney. Anyway, thanks for the cleanup :-). Who knew that online scams were only a thing in Rockingham, WA? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:42, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Graham87: Why remove the info about unsafe areas and about the old people stepping in front of cars? Was it untrue? If that stuff is true, it merits inclusion as non-obvious.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:10, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

@ThunderingTyphoons!: Somewhat absent-minded elderly people are certainly not unique to Rockingham ... I haven't been to that part of Perth very often but I follow Perth news fairly closely and I've never heard of this problem being particularly acute in that area. Fair point about some of the crime info though; I've put some back. Graham87 (talk) 15:24, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

They're not, but the way it was phrased suggested it was a regular problem... Perhaps not :) Thanks --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:32, 29 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

23:06, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi. I continue to favor static maps in Manhattan, partly because we can use uptown/downtown as up and down. I don't oppose your adding dynamic maps, but please make them togglable with the static maps.

Best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:22, 31 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Sure. I'll do them soon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:26, 31 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: Done and Done. Let me know if anything else needs to be done (I'm on the captions) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:38, 31 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Fixed the captions. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:16, 31 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Awesome! Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:31, 31 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

23:22, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi. Would you mind putting light protection on my user talk page. Xwiki LTA play spaces. Thanks for your consideration. Billinghurst (talk) 11:58, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Billinghurst: It seems your user talk is already indef semi-protected – am I looking at the correct page? I guess that doesn't stop that occasional sleeper account like the one that just vandalised your talk; do you want me to fully protect your talk page? Cheerios, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:02, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Duh! Probably is, okay for it to be left as is, full protection would be overkill. Billinghurst (talk) 12:07, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Righty then. Might just be that the English Wikivoyage's autoconfirmed requirements are flawed and are insufficient. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:10, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

If the documentation on Wikivoyage:Autoconfirmed users is correct, the requirements do not stop vandals. They probably do stop most touts and random graffiti painters. To stop vandals much stricter limits are needed. At sv-wp we introduced a protection level between semi-protection and full protection, meant to allow specifically established users (I don't remember for what, perhaps for editing most templates). –LPfi (talk) 09:47, 7 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

While I'm quite neutral on your change from "Downtown Mumbai" to "Mumbai City Centre", I still have some doubts regarding the commonality of the term "downtown" in India. While you argue that "downtown" is not a common term in India, in my perspective "Downtown Mumbai" is more common than "Mumbai City Centre" and the reason might be that "Downtown Mumbai" is literally a downtown (like Downtown Manhattan). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 18:13, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Apologies for the late response – don't know how I missed this. Regarding the change, it was partially influenced by a friend from Mumbai, but I do get what you mean. That said, a Google search for "Downtown Mumbai" yields 14m results while "Mumbai City Centre" yields 215m results. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 13:07, 10 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

"In geography, a cape is a headland or a promontory of large size extending into a body of water, usually the sea." Delaware Bay is pretty big; see w:Delaware Bay. The picture of Delaware Bay in that article shows some obvious capes on the New Jersey side of that bay. Dunno why you insist on subtracting information, though I'd reduce it to "the Atlantic Coast." Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:21, 10 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: After some thought, I self-reverted my revert but replaced it with "Atlantic Coast" per your suggestion. I guess it's not wv:obvious to everyone but it seemed a bit wordy. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 01:27, 10 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Agreed, it was. Thanks for being flexible. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:22, 10 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

This Month in GLAM – Volume XII, Issue VIII, August 2022 Headlines Albania report: Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos Campaign in Albania and Kosovo in 2022 Australia report: Introducing Wikidata to the City of Sydney Brazil report: In-person and online activities hosted by Brazil during Wikimania 2022 Estonia report: Summer in WMEE - from collecting professors´ portraits to new potential co-operations Germany report: Coins and paintings by the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation Indonesia report: 4 Islands Outreach; Digital Clippings; Balinese Wikisource Competition Italy report: Italian institutions ever closer to Wiki Loves Monuments Kosovo report: Wikipedia Pages Wanting Photos Campaign and Wikivoyage Netherlands report: West Africa in the Van der Kraaij Photo Collection 1972-1987 New Zealand report: A Wikipedian at Large Poland report: The summary of GLAM editing contest and the end of residency at the National Museum in Cracow; Cooperation with Wawel Royal Castle; Hack(art)hon for Zachęta Portugal report: Linking Portuguese culture to Wikidata Serbia report: Contemporary Art Edit-a-thon and Wikipedian in residence at the Historical Archive of Negotin Sweden report: 100 000 Bildminnen; Uniforms, images from New Sweden, colonial officers, the map book of Fryderyk Getkant, and more!; Swedish general election 2022 UK report: Culturally diversifying Wikipedia Uruguay report: Wikimuseos & editing clubs in Uruguay USA report: Wikimania, Meetups and More AvoinGLAM report: Crisis & GLAM Content Partnerships Hub report: Tools; Helpdesk; IGO/INGO Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons report: New tool in development utilizing Structured Data WMF GLAM report: Capacity building for Bophana Center Calendar: September's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

01:50, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery 22:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

17:18, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery 00:30, 27 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

User:(WT-en) Jtblin has requested the deletion of their user page at ticket:2022093010004373. It's admin protected so I'm unable to make the request through the normal means. Could you take care of it please? Cabayi (talk) 10:52, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Cabayi: Done – thanks for the notice. (As an FYI, all pages with the "(WT-en)" prefix are sysop protected for attribution purposes). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:55, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thank you. Cabayi (talk) 11:22, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 00:24, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hey bro! The quickbar isn't working. Besides, the map isn't looking good. Whenever I refresh the page and see the mapframe, the position of the Kangla isn't in the center of the frame but bending over sides. Please help me to fix the 2 issues. :-) --Haoreima (talk) 11:39, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi Haoreima, by "quickbar", I presume you're referring to the banner? {{Quickbar}} is only used on country articles or dependent/external territories (like the Cocos (Keeling) Islands, Niue, or the British Indian Ocean Territory), and the article doesn't use that template. I'm not sure how to fix that because it's fine on my end. Could you perhaps upload a screenshot?

Responding to your second point, changing the mapframe centre should generally be easy. I'll take a stab at fixing it, though please adjust it as necessary. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:47, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Is this what you were after? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:50, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I meant the original quickbar. But it's ok as you explained it to me. Regarding Banner, can it be crafted out from this File:Kangla Manipur Palace.jpg? If it's ok, then the dragons will be covered by the name of the article as it's in the left side. To avoid it from being covered, can we do lateral inversion of the banner?

Yes, it's what I wished. The rectangular area of the Kangla to be in the center of the map. The present version is much better than the previous one. Thank you for doing that. Haoreima (talk) 12:26, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Done. By the way, it's actually very easy to crop a banner. All you need to do is use the CropTool and set the aspect ratio to custom with a ratio of 7:1. I can help if needed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:35, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for crafting it. In fact, I have a mindset that things done by myself isn't nice and if it's done by a well experienced person, it's satisfactory. :-) --Haoreima (talk) 12:53, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

This Month in GLAM – Volume XII, Issue IX, September 2022 Headlines Albania report: Wiki Loves EuroPride in Albania Australia report: Behind the scenes with Australia's Wiki Loves Earth 2022 winner Austria report: A Börthday present for Wikidata - the DACH Culture Contest Brazil report: Reopening of Museu Paulista and other news France report: Meeting with Prime minister cultural adviser; Residence at the Brittany Museum India report: Digitisation of O Bharat, a bilingual biweekly published in Goa from 1912 to 1949 Indonesia report: GLAM Socialization; Wikistories for GLAM Competition Italy report: September month of results and planning Netherlands report: Wiki Loves Monuments Suriname first edition: 554 photos New Zealand report: New Zealand Thesis Project and Te Papa Forget-me-nots Poland report: The results of GLAM editing contest; GLAM Coordinators Meeting Serbia report: External projects, great results and high level of independence Sweden report: Bookfair back on site; Cultural history in High Schools; More identifiers from National Historical Museums of Sweden on Wikidata; Swedish general election 2022 Switzerland report: Swiss GLAM Programm UK report: Islamic art and global art USA report: Advocacy and Invention; New Smithsonian WiR; Called to Create; DC Statehood and Home Rule; Annual meeting; Wikipedian in Residence Opportunity at the Pérez Art Museum Miami Content Partnerships Hub report: Workshops on tool prioritization and helpdesk Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons report: View it! tool development update Calendar: October's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

14:09, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

  May I ask why you have reversed my edit to this page: It is simply untrue to say that the 'UK has used revocation of citizenship as a political weapon against those travelling to the conflict in Syria.' a number of British citizens have visited Syria this year and the UK government does not have the power to prevent them. Revocation of citizenship is only used against those who go to participate in the conflict and that was the nature of my edit,

Thank you Deano. Deano1960 (talk) 11:52, 17 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Deano1960: Okay, if that is the case, then by all means go add that, but please use an edit summary because otherwise we don't know if your edit was a test edit or an addition. In fact, I thought your first edit to that page was a test edit for that same reason. Also, please don't reinsert that typo. Best, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:57, 17 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 21:46, 17 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 21:23, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I think you made a good call at the Pub, but let me address that here anyway, by comparing these:

• "I have had my edits rolled back by admins in content or style disputes. I felt it was abuse of admin editing privileges"
• "I have had my edits undone by admins in content or style disputes. I felt it was abuse of admin editing privileges"
• "I have had my edits reverted by admins in content or style disputes. I felt it was abuse of admin editing privileges"

It's easy to imagine people making all of these statements, right? But it's difficult to imagine someone saying:

• "I have had my edits reverted without explanation by admins in content or style disputes, which doesn't bother me at all, but, wow, if they had rolled back those edits instead, I definitely would have felt it was abuse of admin editing privileges"
• "I have had my edits undone without explanation by admins in content or style disputes, which doesn't bother me at all, but, wow, if they had rolled back those edits instead, I definitely would have felt it was abuse of admin editing privileges"

Rollback itself isn't the problem. We could remove the rollback button from the software entirely (which is easy, and can be done both per-user and per-wiki), and we would still have the real problem. Your proposed rules focus on a button. If we are going to have rules, they should focus on the "failure to explain reverts" part, not on "one way, among many, that results in a failure to explain reverts". WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:18, 20 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Good point. I don't know the clear answer for what most Wikimedians would do, but I (and I assume most other Wikimedians) would usually include an edit summary while clicking the "undo" button, unless it's a self-revert. This is in contrary to rollback, where you simply can't add one. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:19, 21 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

My impression is that reversions are explained only occasionally in edit summaries, mostly in the cases of obviously good faith edits. For touting, at least some admins add the {{tout}} template more or less consistently, but also then might not comment in the edit summary (in which case what button was pressed is irrelevant). –LPfi (talk) 07:45, 21 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I think we should focus on our values in this issue. Specifically, the relevant value is that we are a welcoming community that is willing to invest effort into encouraging newcomers and explaining why their edits were removed. It's not about the button; it's about getting an explanation to people.

Given what we know about the kind of people who make basic mistakes, putting the explanation in an edit summary is less effective at demonstrating our values than putting the explanation on the newbie's User_talk: page. The process LPfi describes of reverting and templating is a good one. That gets the explanation directly to the editor, which is a very good, very desirable, very community-building action. For this group, Rollback+template is better than Undo+edit summary. (Undo+edit summary still wins for communicating with RecentChanges patrollers, but not for communicating with the newbie.)

Then there's the intermediate stage, when we think that the person has figured out the history page and edit summaries. The newcomer who has found the edit summaries could benefit from an explanation in an edit summary, which is more convenient for us than leaving notes on their User_talk: pages. I've seen no research on this, but let's guess it's after the person has made 10 edits, and maybe somewhere around 100 edits. A newbie who uses the Undo button has found the edit summaries; a newbie who repeated the same edit from scratch probably hasn't. (That suggests that if you have to revert the same thing twice, it should be explained on the User_talk: page, unless they did a straight Undo to restore it.)

Among advanced editors, edit summaries begin to have less practical value and more social meaning. I don't usually need an edit summary to figure out what you did. I'll be able to figure out what you did from the diff and make a guess about your purpose based on the diff and other interactions we have. In the rare instance that I can't figure it out, I know how to find you and ask for an explanation. This means that edit summaries are normally unnecessary for any immediate, practical purpose. They are, at most, convenient for both of us (and also the RecentChanges patrollers).

But:

Although the immediate practical benefit is low, among long-time folks, the content of your edit summary is also one part of how I decide whether you are a nice person who is treating me well, or a mean person who is being rude to me, or an angry person who is losing patience with me. Although edit summaries aren't necessary to explain what you're doing, they are used by other editors to guess how you feel about me and my contributions. The key point is still getting an explanation to me somehow, and even though many options are available and acceptable, I'll normally expect to find it in the edit summary. And this is why an experienced editor may be equally upset about a Rollback and a default-message Undo, but won't be upset about an Undo that says something like "Wait until the discussion ends" or "No consensus". An experienced editor might interpret the lack of explanation as meaning that you thought me and my efforts were worthless.

I don't think we should focus on the rollback button. I think we should focus on getting an explanation to people, not on the method. The primary way we achieve that is probably encouraging experienced people when they do the right thing (e.g., hit the thanks button whenever you see someone leaving a custom message on a newbie's User_talk: page) rather than calling them out when they don't. (w:en:Negative reinforcement requires discipline, but it works.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:56, 21 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

A rollbacker rolled back an edit of mine at enwiki yesterday. I undid it and added a single ? to the default "Undid revision..." edit summary. It turned out it was just an accident. No big deal. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:44, 25 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Fingerslips are mostly accidents, though (and agree that it's no big of a deal). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:21, 25 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

My friend, re: this difference: a few "located"s really should be our biggest problem, don't you think? :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:42, 30 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Definitely much more of a problem than those pesky {{movetodistrict}} tags, aren't they? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:25, 30 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

"Located" really is no problem; it subtracts no meaning from anything and does not require correction. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:03, 30 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Okay I was being sarcastic, but located also doesn't add any meaning, does it? I usually prefer clear concise writing, and my usually journalistic writing tells me not to use it (I read journalism for the entirety of my 30–60-minute train commute). FWIW, I have seldom seen the word "located" being used (this is the only article I've read this month that has the word "located" in its title). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:23, 30 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I have no problem with deleting unnecessary uses of "located" and have done so myself, but maybe we can be a little restrained in our edit summaries when people haven't really done anything wrong. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:19, 30 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Right, but who doesn't like to beef up the edit summaries for humour, though? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:24, 30 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I may be overthinking this, but I'm concerned about the possibility of offending someone whose only shortcoming was to use the word "located." I've previously talked to Ibaman about similar edit summaries. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:50, 30 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

It was not my intention of offending someone, but I have to ask: who will it offend? Using Toronto as an example, surely those "located"s would have been included by multiple users and not just one, so I'm confused as to who it'll offend. I will curve down my usage such edit summaries, but no guarantee as I may forget about it one day, though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:59, 31 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 21:16, 31 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I am trying to make a static map for Mount Buller but I don't know how to add individual parts of the template, such as the markers or the key. Can you give me some advice on how to do this, as Wikivoyage:How to draw static maps isn't very clear on this. JML1148 (talk) 09:12, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

@JML1148: FWIW, Wikivoyage:How to draw static maps is fairly outdated and I haven't really been following those instructions; I mostly learned how to draw static maps using trial and error and you can probably see that my earlier static maps look pretty terrible (at least compared to File:Leeds map.png), reflecting this long later.

Though in bottom-level city or park articles dynamic maps are usually favoured, static maps can have massive advantages, especially for a ski resort where roads can be at best, unclear. I haven't drawn many static maps for cities/districts before (perhaps see Canberra/South Canberra#Parliamentary Triangle for one that I have drawn). Are you looking for File:Template for districts.svg? That has all the markers the key plus a few other symbols such as a parking or metro symbol.

Let me know if you need any help. If I may suggest, consider using Stratford (Victoria), Kununurra, or many of the Chicago districts as a guide. I've used these three when making static maps for city/district articles. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:20, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I could tell it was somewhat outdated and I had to just make up some things. I wanted to make just the centre of the Village on the map, as it is a bit messy on the dynamic map. I know about the file, however my question was about how to take items from the template and place them on the map. JML1148 (talk) 10:33, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I just simply copied the marker and placed it where I wanted it to be placed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:41, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Ok, thank you! JML1148 (talk) 20:40, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

@JML1148: I just had a look at the static map and I must say, it looks very good (especially for your first). Are you also planning to make a static map for Mt Buller as a whole (with all the chairlifts and everything outside the village centre)? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:35, 3 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thank you! I am not planning to do so, as I wanted a map just for the centre of the village because it was difficult to see on the dynamic map due to the amount of markers. Now that you say so, it may be a good idea to have a map of the lifts and runs on the article itself. JML1148 (talk) 09:48, 3 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Makes sense. It's a pity that Wikimedia maps automatically filter out the chairlifts (see [149] for reference), but I've essentially lost my modus operandi in Wikimedia maps.

One other thing, if you want, you may also want to nominate Mt Buller for Destination of the month/Off the beaten path, where the article will be featured on the main page for a month. We've had few features of Victoria (only two so far), so this would be a great candidate for a third. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:23, 3 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Why did you revert my edit? Tailsultimatefan3891 (talk) 01:20, 29 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Special:Diff/4551014. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 01:23, 29 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

If you don't mind my giving my 2 cents: categories are important on various other Wikis, but we don't manually add categories to any article on this site, nor do we basically ever create new ones. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:25, 29 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I am sorry for all those contributions. I saw this diff. Categories are often not used anyway. Very sorry. Should we get engaged on this page: Wikivoyage:Categories Tailsultimatefan3891 (t | c | ca) 01:30, 29 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Not a problem. We all make rookie errors when we're new. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 01:31, 29 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

OK. And why you said "This is your final warning. Talk pages should never be removed without a valid reason." when I'm new to the wiki? Tailsultimatefan3891 (t | c | ca) 11:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Because you've been relentlessly going on a template-creating spree (with copyvios) and defying the site's norms and policies since Oct 29 and we've already given you more than enough latitude per our one-strike policy. You're not really new to Wikimedia, though, aren't you? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:06, 3 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

See, my Wikimedia account was created more than a month ago, right. See Special:CentralAuth/Tailsultimatefan3891. Tailsultimatefan3891 (t | c | ca) 14:57, 3 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I love the class that's suggesting all the new banners for Korea. One of the students even found a banner that isn't from the city it's being used it.

I added a bunch of comments to Wikivoyage:Banner suggestions, mostly to link to discussions or to link to talk pages where discussions ought to be. AlasdairW or SHB2000, could one of you make some banners for the discussions that already exist?

The section is so big/busy right now that I'd like to get a few more archived when we can. I think there are more than 30 items listed right now. I figure that once the alternative banner has been made and posted to the discussion, and a note left at Wikivoyage:Requests for comment#Banner discussions, it should be okay to archive the original suggestion. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:45, 3 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@WhatamIdoing: If I can, then sure. I'll handle the old requests once I come home today (UTC ≈05:00) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:22, 3 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm still working on this article. Can you give me 15 minutes with it ? Thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 12:48, 5 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Sure – it's getting late here so I likely won't edit the article until tomorrow (UTC). I've fixed the wiki formatting, but great work on improving the 822-byte article into a 10.5k-byte article. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hello, SHB2000! I just decided to stop by to see what Wikivoyage is all about. You have quite the impressive user page! Hope you're doing well. Cheers, Hockeycatcat (talk) 12:32, 7 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Hockeycatcat: Nice to see you around! I do sometimes miss the days of simple.wiki, but hope you're doing well too :-). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 21:48, 7 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 00:32, 8 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Did you get a chance to convert the images into barncompass (e.g. {{BCJP}})? OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 04:59, 28 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

I thought about it, but it would have been too much effort to do around 200 barncompasses. I sort of gave up on that project, though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:34, 28 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Did you have any that you have done? Or it never took off the ground? It'll be nice to have some instead of none. Cause I can see its use in the upcoming proposed edit-a-thon and award extra points for focusing a certain country. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 03:51, 31 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

@OhanaUnited: Don't know how I overlooked your comment, but a very incomplete list can be found on User:SHB2000/List of Barncompasses. It hasn't been updated in a long time, though. I can create more of these if you think it might be useful. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:03, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hello again, SHB2000! I just did this, and I'm not sure if it was the right thing to do. I only realise now that NPOV is not a thing over here! Hockeycatcat (talk) 11:18, 10 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Hockeycatcat: NPOV is indeed not a policy on Wikivoyage – instead, we have Wikivoyage:Be fair. They're similar, but not quite the same thing. If a certain city has streets polluted with garbage, of it it looks filthy, per Wikivoyage:Be fair, it can be listed. Likewise, if a restaurant is a Michelin star restaurant, then by all means it can be mentioned. We also have Wikivoyage:Don't tout, which I'll get to.

To the specific edit, it was due to be reverted per Wikivoyage:Don't tout, though the "go next" section was probably fine. I'll add {{tout}} on the user's talk page, though. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:25, 10 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

[edit conflict] It's a judgement call. This isn't a place for touting. If you believe a restaurant owner calls out their restaurant as the best one, then revert (and explain at their talk page), but saying that the best cafés are in a certain area is something we do. Cf Turku:

"The biggest concentration of top restaurants is along the river, at the right bank downstream from [...]"

Also wordings such as "the best beefs in town" are somewhat common – for smaller towns, where there isn't real competition for that status, otherwise they would need to be outstanding.

–LPfi (talk) 11:29, 10 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

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Regarding this, would you mind restoring this? I was trying hard to find a place where students can report their articles for peer review by the WV community. If it exists, it is very well hidden. I didn't want them to spam Traveller's Pub, so I directed them there. If this is the wrong place, please move it to where it should be - or the Pub if no better place exists. TIA, Piotrus (talk) 06:03, 6 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

You see, RFC exists for requesting comment on a particular page. By simply linking a page in namespace 0 (i.e. mainspace), there's nothing to request comment on. Perhaps could you tell your students to start a discussion on the relevant talk page and then link the discussion in RFC. Hope that helps, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:15, 6 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

We could also create a cafe, but what would we call it? "Korea and China cafe"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:25, 6 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek: Although I just ranted about overgeneralised articles 7 minutes ago, perhaps something like "East Asia cafe" (even though it's a bit broad)? This way, if anyone has queries or questions about an article about Japan or Taiwan per se, there is also a place to request that. We do have a fair number of new contributors who edit Japan-related articles and often have questions. Tai123.123, if you're still active on Wikimedia, what would you say of this suggestion? In other words, if such a cafe existed when you were a new user on Wikivoyage, would this have impacted your editing experience? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:34, 6 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Also apologies if my message seems a bit rushed – I'm currently adding a new proposed freeway on OpenStreetMap while also intermittently checking en.voy and en.wb at the same time. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:38, 6 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Maybe, I think I'd be more likely just to post on the talk page of one of the admins. Tai123.123 (talk) 02:36, 7 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'd suggest Wikivoyage:Peer review or such. The reason we came here was b/c at Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub it says "If you'd like to draw attention to a comment to get feedback from other Wikivoyagers, try Requests for comment." and I want my students to get feedback from experienced Wikivoyagers... Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 05:30, 7 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Experienced users doing Wikivoyage:Recent changes patrol are paying attention to new edits, anyway, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:58, 7 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek Doesn't help if we want to have a standardized peer review activity. As my students are finishing the projects, the final step I have for them is "ask for your article to be reviewed by the experienced Wikivoyage volunteers". Now I am struggling to tell them how, exactly, the can do so :( Piotrus (talk) 02:49, 9 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I would have let them use "requests for comment" in this unusual way, but they could certainly post to the Travellers' pub. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:21, 9 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek Can you restore their requests for comments or maybe move them to the Pub? I'd like to ask the rest of the students to sent in their requests for review to the same centralized location in the near future, so there may be ~20 requests in total. Piotrus (talk) 03:04, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

It wouldn't be appropriate for me to do anything unilaterally. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:41, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Piotrus, did you read my very first reply above? RFC is not for simply linking pages with no discussion. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 05:17, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I would have let the RFC entries stay, or added a link to an appropriate page and answered there (I would have done it, but didn't have the time to check the articles before the entries were removed). The standard procedure, which SHB maintains, would be to start a discussion on the article talk page and link it from the RFC page. This involves two steps (the talk page entry and the link at RFC), is it too difficult? I think we should be kind to newcomers and accommodate their mistakes, but of course, with all the group following the example of the first ones, it is a bit more disruptive than with single editors.

Would it be OK to reinstate the entries, with an answer including a link to the appropriate talk page? Would that be enough of a model for the rest of the group?

–LPfi (talk) 08:13, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ikan Kekek @SHB2000 @LPfi I appreciate RfC is not for linking pages with no discussion, but as I noted earlier, this is unclear. In particular, the Pub suggests this is the place to ask for feedback. It has been my experience (with banners as well) that there is a lot of unrwritten or semi-hiden rules and/or pratices that Wikivoyagers developed, and experienced ones like you all know about them. But relatively new editors, like me, not to mention complete newbies as my students, don't know this, and again, if the Pub says "ask for feedback there", this is where we go.

Second, with all due respect, rules should bend to accomodate the needs of travellers and editors. As I said, it's ok if RfC is not the right place to ask for this, but no alternative venue was suggested ("maybe there, maybe not"). From where I stand, this is not very friendly to my students, who are now asking me "what happened to our requests for revews/where can I posted them" and I am not sure what to tell them. Well, yes, I can tell them it's a two-step process, "ask on the talk page first and then ask at RfC", but what I find a bit disheartening is that instead of copying their requests there (to the relevant talk pages) their requests were simply blanked. This is not a very friendly way to handle new editors, most of whom don't even know how to check history of a page and read edit summaries. (And yes, LPfi, I think that would be totally acceptable; this worked for the banner discussion, where a lot of suggestions where met with comments "please propose this change at the talk page first"). Telling them in a visible way how to do it better is fine, what I am slightly upset about is that right now, most students cannot be expected to figure out what happened and they have to rely on me to tell them this (because, again, most newbies don't understand stuff like "go to edit history and see if there is an explanation in an edit summary").

I recommend, for best practices, to write clear instructions on how to request a peer review or such, and that when a newbie makes a mistake, the experienced editors finish the process for them, leaving them an explanation on their talk page, instead of blanking their edits. That will be more helpful in converting some newbies into regulars. Piotrus (talk) 09:27, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Piotrus, I understand your frustration. I too have had many issues with these unspoken "policies" that are in practice. It can sometimes feel like "this is the way of how we do things and you need to meticulously observe us; if you do, then you are more than welcome, if you don't, then you can back off and make sure your name never comes in Special:RecentChanges" (obviously exaggerated, but this is how I sometimes felt), and this is something I hope to change.

However, in this case, this is not an unspoken rule, but something that is clearly outlined at the top of the pub. If you somehow missed it, it's right above the point RfC point, it says "If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, use the article's talk page to keep the discussion associated with that article.". It's up to the user if they want to link the discussion on RfC or not. Quoting the top of Wikivoyage:Requests for comment, for reference:

This page allows you to ask other Wikivoyagers to contribute to a discussion, including policy/style pages, and article content. You may want some feedback, more opinions, or just some help in reaching a consensus.

• Don't start conversations here. Direct Wikivoyagers' attention to a discussion going on elsewhere.

I am not disputing that RfC isn't a place to request feedback; it indeed is. What RfC is not, is a place to start a discussion – that includes linking a plain link with no discussion. It has been made very clear that the procedure for requesting feedback is to start a discussion on the relevant talk page and then link it in RfC. If that simple process is too hard, then I don't know what is. It's unreasonable to expect me to start five different talk page requests and let each and every individual user know when it was very clear what the processes are.

--SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:53, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, I understand. I missed that line at first, as I came there from the Pub which says "If you'd like to draw attention to a comment to get feedback from other Wikivoyagers, try Requests for comment." I didn't consider that RfC will say in turn "start a discussion on a talk page and report it here, but don't start one directly here", I just followed instruction from the Pub. Piotrus (talk) 11:03, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

In saying that, the top of the pub is a bit messy and user-unfriendly. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:05, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

And, yes, it is my bad, I ddn't notice until now the Pub is saying "draw attention to a comment to get feedback from other Wikivoyagers", I somehow undestood this as "draw attention to an issue to get feedback from other Wikivoyagers". It maybe worthwile to add information to the Pub that if one wants to draw attention to an issue, they should first start a discussion on the respective article's talk, THEN report the discussion to RfC. Piotrus (talk) 11:05, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

By all means, WV:PF if you think it should be added. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:06, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I will, but for now, I started talk page discussions for all the pages that were reported for RfC. Now that the talk page discussions are properly in existence, would you be so kind and restore the edits by my student? (I noticed one of the removed requests was not by my student, I also started a discussion for it). Piotrus (talk) 04:58, 13 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Piotrus: Done – see Special:Diff/4560983. Thank you for starting discussions on the relevant talk pages. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:52, 13 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

The activity is "Please start a request for feedback on your Wikivoyage article’s talk page, then list it at https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Requests_for_comment#Article_discussions". To what degree students can follow instructions is, well, interesting as always. Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 06:21, 14 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Indeed. I didn't want to have to protect the talk page, but it escalated to the point where I had to use the wiki equivalent of force. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:23, 14 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I found myself telling multiple students "this is not the right place". I'll have to think about how to word this assignment more clearly, but well, it had a live url. Dealing with ESLs is... always and adventure. (Most of my students use machine translation for everything, from translating my slides and my speech to translating English Wikivoyage pages, their text, and replies... I love technology but I am worried about recent developments here. There are lots and lots of communicaiton issues, some of which you can observe. Sorry for the trouble, Piotrus (talk) 07:14, 14 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

PS. You can unprotect the page, the class is finished :) Piotrus (talk) 07:15, 14 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

One of the issues I've found with the vast majority of Wikivoyage's pages is that the vast majority of them were designed for the MediaWiki of 2005 and either look old, are needlessly complicated, or are caused by the general templatophobia (I made that wording up, but I flout that policy per my interpretation of m:IAR) found within Wikivoyage. RfC is no exception to this.

Anyway, thanks for cleaning up the requests, Piotrus. I must admit I do a poor job at dealing with EALDs (both IRL and on wiki), but I think Wikivoyage:User ban nominations#Veillg1 only escalated this further. I'll unprotect the talk page in just a moment, though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:06, 14 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 21:55, 14 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 23:22, 21 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I didn't mean to and was confused into thinking it was still on the vfd page. But would you please edit out your slam against the consensus? That is an inappropriate and inflammatory thing to put into a closing message. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:54, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Okay, thanks for agreeing with that, but is there a policy stating that I cannot include my personal opinions in an outcome statement? I think we should discuss this somewhere – as far as I'm aware, there isn't a policy or a guideline stating that I cannot. I understand your rationale, though – I think it should still be discussed somewhere (perhaps in the pub?). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

We will discuss it if we have to, but the entire point of closing a vfd discussion is to stop arguing! I can't believe you would have to be told that closing is merely a matter of record-keeping, simply reporting on the decision a consensus took. Why would you insult the consensus instead of just stating what was decided? If you can't close decisions you disagree with without trying to get in a last shot, please stop closing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:18, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

It really bugs me that there has to be a policy when common sense should suffice. There shouldn't need to be a policy for everything. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:19, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Do you know why there's never been a policy before? Because as far as I can remember, no-one has ever done what you did. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:21, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

(edit conflict) Well, that's the exact reason why I waited for 10 extra days, even though the consensus was to keep the article. If you were complaining about my closure, then why didn't you close the article yourself 10 days ago?

Also, I stand by my actions. If there's no policy stating that something isn't allowed (whether it's local, global, or mandated by the ToU), that means you cannot cite common sense as a reason for me not to do something. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:26, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I agree with IK. An admin is expected not only to follow policies, but also to use their best judgement. We cannot (and don't want to) have a rule for everything, and there is always room for interpretation. We have seen the analogue in the US as well as in Finland, where the public has been chocked when a cabinet member, chairman or other official has used their nominal powers to act against the spirit of a decision when formally acting according to it. There was no rule forbidding them, but they were expected not to do that. At a wiki, the closure should be a technical act, not one where you express opinions. If you hadn't stated your opinion clearly enough before, then do that and wait with the closure so that people can answer. –LPfi (talk) 12:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Missed the point. Tell me what policy I didn't follow, and I'll be convinced; until then, this is an attempt to enforce and shove an unspoken rule down my throat. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:50, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

OK. I'll add it. Until now you didn't break any rules, but IK and I think that your judgement wasn't sound in adding the closing comment. Closures are things done according to practice and sound judgement as well as rules. –LPfi (talk) 14:05, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

I see you often archive things like:

(→‎Amish and Mennonites: archive)

Thanks, that needs doing & is often rather a tedious chore.

However, I'd find it helpful if you'd say "archive as keep" or "archive as delete" instead of just "archive". That makes it easier for an admin who has not followed the discussion to see what happened. Pashley (talk) 09:08, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Pashley: sure thing. Thinking about it, it does indeed make it easier for anyone, as you don't have to click the link to find out the outcome. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:09, 26 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 20:03, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

20:57, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery 00:41, 6 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

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MediaWiki message delivery 23:35, 12 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Just so you know, User:Air fans has also been creating lots of new airport articles. I have posted a message on his/her talk page but I think we need to consider whether or not most of these new airport articles should be nominated for deletion. Salt Lake City International Airport is an example of one that I don't think should get its own article because it's not a major hub, and most of the time, you'll need to connect through a major international hub like New York or Los Angeles to get to Salt Lake City if you are travelling from overseas. The dog2 (talk) 23:11, 16 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the notice. I too think a lot of the airport articles they've been creating don't merit their own articles (including Venice Airport), but we might also have to nominate these for deletion, too. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 02:55, 17 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Or perhaps a better course of action will be to bring these up in the pub and let the community discuss. The dog2 (talk) 13:45, 17 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 00:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Howdy!

Is the National Parks expedition still active?

I've been getting an urge to do more with parks, especially in Mexico and other Latin American countries, but just wondering if others are actively creating new parks articles in other parts of the world or if the expedition has petered out. Mrkstvns (talk) 00:47, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hey Mrkstvns, I still routinely create park articles, though I haven't been creating that many articles recently (including park articles) as I haven't had that much time on my hands to do the research recently. https://xtools.wmflabs.org/pages/en.wikivoyage.org/SHB2000/0 should give you an idea regarding my article creations, but I haven't seen many other users (apart from you) routinely create park articles, but I'm glad we have you onboard. Regarding the expedition, I still do use those stats, but for some reason, I haven't been bothered to update the stats.

Either way, I'm looking forward to your future Latin American park articles. Cumbres de Monterrey National Park is looking great so far.

Sinceramente. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 03:07, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the season's greetings, and Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to you too! Ypsilon (talk) 11:56, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

np :-). And do stay warm too! (me trying to imagine what a Helsinki winter is like when I cannot stand –2° in Perisher...) --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

It's the normal Christmas weather here, around freezing, but indoors it's warm of course. I guess you have nice beach weather down there? :) Ypsilon (talk) 12:10, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

It's a bit colder than a usual summer (thank you, La Niña), but definitely nice weather to go to the beach (I was planning to go, but most Sydney beaches would be jam packed and I'm definitely not going thru this). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:15, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hello SHB2000! Please open this, there's something for you:😃👇👇 aapka-msg.com/wow/?n=Haoreima&t=w :-) --Haoreima (talk) 18:09, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Haoreima: wow, that's super creative! Thank you for that, Haoreima. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 21:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Please delete all IP messages in [179], because filter 35 disallow my delete IP's disruptive editing.--MCC214 (talk) 16:22, 27 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Done by Ikan Kekek. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 02:24, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

I think your response was a bit harsh: the normal practice on the web seems to be to ignore warnings, and awareness of copyright is very low. I wouldn't expect this to be better for contributors to the African projects than among people over all.

How many of your friends "carefully read" the terms of use of services on the net? A major Swedish newspaper asked my to read their privacy terms on registering, "as they were concerned about my privacy" – 40 pages, plus additional terms for special services (not specified) and third party content (not specified). I did read most of the terms, and they were confused, non-specific and contained unacceptable conditions. This is what end user agreements mostly look like, and I wouldn't be surprised by a lamp the warranty of which expires if you try to light it, "to the extent permitted by local law".

Schoolchildren are supposed to find images on the net to use in their works, and few would know how to distinguish those that would be covered by fair use or similar. Many teachers do the same. Do you know anybody who checks the copyright status of statues and architecture before sharing their holiday shots on social media?

In this reality, it is no surprise that people just ignore copyright, warnings and terms and just click whatever is needed for them to get their job done. We should educate them and require them to listen, but we cannot expect default warnings to do the job for us.

–LPfi (talk) 16:20, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

From a legal standpoint, it is the user's responsibility to follow the terms of use. Whether most people or not should have no prejudice on this. That's also not to mention that the WMF's ToU page is short (and can be read within 15 minutes at worst) and not a hundred pages long. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:13, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

For me just reading the ToU takes about 20 minutes. If I want to understand it, I need significantly more. If you aren't used to legalese and copyleft issues, I assume understanding it may be hard. But that's irrelevant. As people just aren't used to reading ToUs, they don't read it, and as that's the norm, you cannot be too amazed about it.

More importantly, showing anger about something people think is normal just alienates them. We need to find common ground, and that's where careful wording comes into play. Tell them what you want in a way that they'll understand, and do it as friendly as you can.

–LPfi (talk) 12:53, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

But two wrongs don't make a right. I do think having a standardised warning like {{tout}} is the best way to handle this, but I seem to be in the minority here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 22:33, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hello, please how do I avoid putting up articles that violate copyright? when I browse the internet and get information on places that don’t yet have an article on wikivoyage and use those information to create an article, why does it violate copyright? How do you advice I get Informations and also use it to create articles without violating copyright?

please I am asking these questions solely because I need to learn so I avoid all of the mistakes I have made so far . Nelospecial (talk) 23:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi Nelospecial, thank you for asking.

The short answer to this would be to write everything in your own words and to never copy text word-for-word. Also note that copying sentences and then changing one or two words would still be considered a copyright violation.

Best, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:12, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Nelospecial: Copyright covers the written expression, not the facts, so you should try to extract the facts and tell them in another way. The more the format you use differs from the original, the easier it is. Try to mix facts from several parts of the web site (the lodging descriptions have some text about how amazing the reserve is, try to find titbits of facts there; and try to find other sources, certainly there must be some reports in blogs or travel magazines). If you know more than one language well, you could try to write down facts in the other language before writing you own version, based on that.

One way to loose the original wording is to collect the facts in a way that keeps as little of it as possible. Often writing a list of facts ("wildlife retreat; excellent ecological condition; waterbuck, kudu, giraffe, impala, Nyasaland; 233 bird species; ...") based on the original works. Then you have to fill in all the other words and form the sentences. While writing the new text, avoid the words from the original: could "excellent" be "very good" instead, do you need "wildlife retreat" or is the "game reserve" in the name self-explanatory?

Adjectives such as "delightful" or "stunning" carry very little information and are best left out. If you visit the place and feel it is stunning, perhaps you can come up with another word describing your feeling, ideally telling why you feel so. Even looking at pictures from there you might get a sense of what you want to describe that is not connected to the text you found.

–LPfi (talk) 13:24, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply