@The dog2: To belatedly answer your question, because travellers can be in emotional distress just as much as the rest of us, but are especially vulnerable when they're in that situation on their own in a foreign country. If you're not from Ireland, you probably won't know such a service even exists, and even if you did, you wouldn't know what its name was or how to contact.

It's not relevant for everyone, thankfully, but in my personal view, this hotline is almost as important for some travellers to know as the number for local emergency services. For this reason, I also added the same infobox to UK#Stay safe, and a similar, more international one to Travelling with a mental health condition.

So unless you have a more compelling argument than "not relevant to travellers" (when of course it is), I don't support your deletion. I am certainly open to changing the wording ("Are you in crisis?" may, with hindsight, come across as alarmist), or to putting the information into the main body of the article rather than in an infobox, if that was part of your concerns. The reason I chose an infobox, however, is that most people will not be hunting through a travel guide to find a particular number, but people who do need the number, perhaps without realising it, will find it when perusing a relevant section of the guide.

If we can find a compromise, that would be best. Looking forward to your reply. Apologies for the lateness on my part. Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:24, 8 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

I get what you're saying. I just thought that it is highly unlikely for someone to need their services while only holiday or business trips. Of course, if you move there, that's a different issue. We don't have similar organisations listed in our other country articles. In Singapore, we have the Samaritans of Singapore, and it is not listed anywhere in the article. (But it's true that it's primarily marketed to children, even though its services are technically available to anybody) If you're willing to make a case that this information should be included in all our country articles, I'd be happy to see what the community says. The dog2 (talk) 14:44, 8 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your quick answer. With respect, I'm not sure a case needs to be made for their inclusion in every country article, and at any rate I am not arguing for this to be the case. Not all services are the same, as you've rightly pointed out, and some countries don't seem to have a unified national service but rather regional/local services, or nothing at all. I only really know about the Samaritans UK and Ireland.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:02, 8 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

Should we transfer this conversation to the pub and see what the community says. I'm not entirely convinced that the Samaritans need to be included in the main country articles since the vast majority of visitors won't need them, but I wouldn't mind putting some information about them in articles about working or studying, since longer term visitors are more likely to have the need for their services. That said, I don't feel particularly strongly about this one, and I'm happy to go with whatever the community decides. The dog2 (talk) 20:24, 8 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

I think it's OK to include their number along with numbers to call the police, firefighters and for an ambulance. It could just be listed as "Samaritans (confidential mental health hotline)". Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:32, 8 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

That works for me. The dog2 (talk) 22:10, 8 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

And for me too, rather than labouring the point in an infobox. I accept that they are only useful to a minority of travellers, but for that minority they could be extremely useful, and even life saving. Really appreciate IK's suggestion, and dog's openness to compromise. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:17, 9 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

Three "cities" within historic County Dublin are scraps and there's little reason to visit them. I propose mergers for:

Portmarnock probably to merge into Malahide to the north; or maybe at a pinch into Sutton with Howth to the south.

Skerries to merge into Balbriggan, a good match because it has accommodation, which Balbriggan is short of.

Rush and a few bits and bobs from Lusk, probably also to Balbriggan, feels like too long a stretch from Malahide.

Views? Grahamsands (talk) 10:58, 27 July 2019 (UTC)Reply

It's hard to make an informed decision, because I don't know the area, but they are very bare outlines. If you know the area, and think the merges would improve Wikivoyage, then I say go for it.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:12, 27 July 2019 (UTC)Reply

Done. Portmarnock -> Malahide, Rush -> Balbriggan and Skerries -> Balbriggan. Grahamsands (talk) 20:11, 1 August 2019 (UTC)Reply

On the County Dublin talk page, I propose redirecting Cabinteely into Dun Laoghaire. Grahamsands (talk) 17:21, 22 April 2020 (UTC)Reply

Done.

See County Clare Talk page for an explanation of recent work, and proposal to merge / redirect four scrappy pages: Craggaunowen > Ennis, Querrin > Kilkee, Liscannor > Lahinch, Cliffs of Moher > Doolin. Grahamsands (talk) 21:22, 12 May 2020 (UTC) DoneReply

See County Galway Talk page for a summary of recent work, and proposal to merge subregions East Galway and Connemara to County Galway, Castlegar to Galway city, and Clonbur into Cong in County Mayo. Grahamsands (talk) 17:53, 25 June 2020 (UTC) - DONEReply

See County Tipperary Talk for a summary of recent work. I propose merging Holycross into nearby Thurles. Grahamsands (talk) 10:54, 23 July 2020 (UTC) - DONEReply

The interesting and amusing box added by user:Grahamsands might be better placed on Britain and Ireland, since it's largely about the recent and near-future relationship between our countries and mostly (or totally) caused by the UK's insistence on leaving the single market and customs union. Thoughts? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:48, 10 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I was tempted to post it on Калинингра́д / wv.ru - like the Common Travel Area, there are several possible destination pages. Just so long as it's cross-referenced elsewhere, because there's issues here that the traveller really needs to be alert to. The serious core of that infobox is the mathematical impossibility of what is being proposed, ergo it could all come crashing down at short notice. Grahamsands (talk) 18:00, 10 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure that anything in that box counts as necessary information in that not knowing any of it wouldn't prevent someone from travelling legally to Ireland. By contrast, it is necessary to talk about the CTA in 'Britain and Ireland', as well as on both the UK and Ireland pages. Still, knowing about the practical impossibilities of Brexit is interesting, and you wrote about it in an unusual way, so it certainly has a place somewhere on WV. Do you have any particular objection to, or preference against, moving the box to 'Britain and Ireland'? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Taking your silence as consent, I have plunged forward. Bon week-end ;) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

See County Cork Talk for a summary of recent work, and a proposal to merge Douglas > Cork and Rosscarbery > Clonakilty. Grahamsands (talk) 16:06, 27 November 2020 (UTC) - DONEReply

See County Leitrim for a summary of recent work, and a proposal to merge Dromahair > Manorhamilton. - DONE

See also Ireland’s Hidden Heartlands - eventually this should redirect into one of the Shannon counties, but only once they're useable. Grahamsands (talk) 22:45, 20 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

See County Louth for a summary of recent work, and a proposal to merge Ardee to the county page. Grahamsands (talk) 10:51, 26 January 2021 (UTC) - DONEReply

See County Kilkenny for a proposal to merge five small places into larger towns; County Cavan for a merger of Ballyconnell into Belturbet, and (yes I know it's not ROI, but while you're at it) Belfast for a merger of Newtownabbey. Grahamsands (talk) 13:45, 22 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

- The Kilkenny and Cavan mergers were done, but Newtownabbey was developed as a page.

See County Offaly for a proposal to merger some dozen tiny places into larger towns. Grahamsands (talk) 19:24, 23 April 2021 (UTC) - DONEReply

Ireland has two cultures: the historical Gaelic culture (including one of the oldest literatures in Western Europe) and the more recent English-speaking culture which largely replaced it Can this be changed on the Ireland. This is very opinionated. Gaelic culture alive and well, music, GAA, dance. The language has declined and English is now common language Crann20 (talk) 20:08, 6 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Plunge forward.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:19, 6 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Cheers TT Crann20 (talk) 20:54, 6 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

See County Kerry discussion for a proposal to simplify the structure and merge some small places. Grahamsands (talk) 15:48, 23 May 2021 (UTC) - DONEReply

It was earlier agreed to redirect Ireland’s Hidden Heartlands, but where to? Looks like County Westmeath will be a good destination, lots there and it’s as central as can be. See that county discussion page for one other redirect proposal.

County Laois has a raft of pages which have an intro cut n’ pasted from Wikipedia and not much else. See that discussion page for proposals to redirect nine of them. Grahamsands (talk) 09:16, 21 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Above changes DONE GS

See County Kildare talk for a proposal to make "Kildare" refer to the town not county, and Carbury to redirect to Edenderry.

Views please on whether Maynooth (Ireland) passes the "sufficiently famous" test, thus a candidate to supplant Maynooth Ontario.

See County Carlow talk for a proposal to redirect Rathvilly and Hacketstown to Tullow. Grahamsands (talk) 10:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

DONE for re-assigning Kildare and the re-directs, but without positive acclaim Maynooth isn't famous enough. Grahamsands (talk) 11:47, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Don't know how this was missed in 2019, but am I correct. Perhaps @ThunderingTyphoons!: may want to double check with me. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:00, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Mostly looks fine to me, however I have no idea whether they prefer the 12-hr clock. I wouldn't even say there was a preference for one or the other in the UK, but it was decided to go with 12-hr. Better off asking user:DeFacto, user:Crann20 or user:Grahamsands.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:23, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

24 hr seems to be the commonest clock format in the R o I so I stuck with that. Northern Ireland has the same mix as the rest of UK, and I went with 24 hr for compatibility with R o I. The impossibility of a UK standard has been debated at length. Grahamsands (talk) 11:42, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I had a look at some random images at opening hours images and they seemed to use 12, but in saying that, I myself use 24 in Australia, when vast parts tend to use 12 (I grew up a little bit of my life where the whole city's purpose was for a military base, and I just stuck to 24). I know Scotland uses 24, so Ireland might as well be using 24. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:52, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I changed to 24 hr based on Grahamsands' comment. –LPfi (talk) 11:55, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

What about spelling. The box now says we should use Irish spelling. However, at Wikivoyage:Spelling there is no such beast and I have no idea how it differs from "United Kingdom" or "UK (Oxford spelling)". I suppose we should add a section or at least a few lines at the WV page for any variety supposed to be used in articles. –LPfi (talk) 11:58, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure. Well, we use Kiwi spelling for NZ despite there being no section for NZ on the table (main differences are fiord and some -ize endings) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:04, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Let's not make things more difficult than need. Wikipedia says that Ireland uses UK spelling. If someone from Ireland or who knows about the subject provides information to the contrary, we can discuss it, but there is no merit is us speculating. Ground Zero (talk) 12:16, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I sort of agree with you. It's about the traveller too and what they use, and why we similarly changed it on Malta. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:22, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Irish English is a thing; it has its own accents, grammar and dialect words. But as far as I know, there is no such thing as distinctly Irish spelling. The only argument I can see for "Use Irish spelling" is the high probability of Irish people bristling at being at all associated with the British.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:35, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

If that need to be handled we could solve it by telling that Irish spelling is similar to the British spelling. I think that should be told about NZ English also – for some countries I have no idea what the local spelling is like, but choosing the right one between British and US would mostly be good enough. –LPfi (talk) 15:02, 5 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I think rather NZ spelling is unique enough, similar to AU. Just like en-AU, most words invented after WWII follow US usage. (there's still notable differences between the two) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:21, 14 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I may have been mistaken, but I think it's a mistake to have a "Use British spelling" notice at the top of the page for exactly the reason ThunderingTyphoons! states above. If Irish spelling is the same as British spelling, we can say that without saying "Use British spelling". Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:20, 14 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

The term "Irish spelling" I would take to mean Irish Gaelic versions of placenames, even if the area is not Gaeltachtaí and has English as the primary language. Even for Irish-speaking areas, as I put it under Inishmore: "this page gives more prominence to the English (and unofficial) versions of names, simply because it's the English version of a multilingual travel guide, and most Anglophones need a bit of help with pronunciation. How would you ask the way to Cill Mhuirbhigh? - it's Kilmurvey, simple once you know." - Grahamsands (talk) 20:46, 23 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

So perhaps it needs to say "Please use Irish English spelling." --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:27, 26 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Replaced, although I still quite disagree with not using a certain type of spelling because that country does not go well with Britain or the US. Take Cuba for an example. Do we use British spelling because of the tensions happening over there? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:32, 26 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Irish English spelling is identical to British English spelling. The only difference is what name we choose to use.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:33, 26 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I'd support going with like all the other anti-British countries which use British spelling, and using mention British spelling. While I understand the past histories and leading to all this, but it only makes things ever so more confusing for non-native English speakers. (I am saying this as trying to understand the difference between French Polynesian and New Caledonian French and to only so how difficult it is.) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:41, 26 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

It's certainly confusing, but that's why we link "Irish British English" to this page, which explains "Indian, Irish, New Zealand, Pakistani, Singaporean and South African English are almost identical in spelling to British English". By the way, it's highly simplistic and mostly incorrect to describe Ireland as an "anti-British country".--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:54, 26 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Yeah you've convinced me. Although I disagree with wv:spelling on NZ. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 13:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

The pages for this county are fragmented. See County Donegal Talk page for proposals to re-direct ten of them. Grahamsands (talk) 20:36, 23 August 2021 (UTC) - DONEReply

This work is near completion. Except for the oddity of Bellfield (see Dublin: Talk page), all cities, parks, counties and regions are now at PDG level, in both the Republic and the North. (PDG = Pretty Damn Good, high-grade Usable.) There are no longer any sub-county pages such as Connemara or Ring of Kerry - three levels within RoI (and two in NI) are plenty and adding others causes fragmentation. It only remains for these upgrades to ripple through to the national and extra-hierarchical pages. A few orphan pages have emerged and others may lurk – ping me if you spot any that have been overlooked.

The Ireland Expedition never got started but I used that page to record progress, sort of a glorified status bar. There’s no longer a need for that and it’s otherwise just obsolete metrics. I therefore intend to close up and redirect that page along with the Northern Ireland Expedition page – it is setting a healthy precedent for work to be completed and so declared. This would not preclude any future expedition with different objectives, eg better banner pics. And of course all pages will continue to need updating and curating. Grahamsands (talk) 08:55, 1 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

w:12-hour clock#Use by country says that the RoI uses 12 hour clock, and that was what I always thought. If so, why does Wikivoyage use the 24 hour clock. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:07, 2 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Grahamsands: what do you think? Ground Zero (talk) 01:20, 2 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Special:Diff/4268209. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:29, 2 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

w:Date and time notation in Ireland is also interesting. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:30, 2 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Fixed a typo in the format box, midnight is 00:00. 24 hr clock predominates so I standardised on that for RoI then it was natural to do the same for NI. The impracticality of a single uniform dtf has been discussed at length so I'll just add two points to that saga:

- because "Get in" transport comes early on each page, and operators (eg Irish Rail) use 24 hr clock, that sets a pattern for the rest;

- the alternative looks alien and wrong for Ireland and UK: "6PM" wouldn't be used. "6 pm" is natural usage but then we drift into a third notation, when we have enough mess with the two. Grahamsands (talk) 08:55, 2 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

True... but if we were to use that first reason, countries like Australia and Singapore would ideally be using the 24 hour time, not the 12. And to the alternative looks alien and wrong. Technically, countries that use the 12 hour clock in the Asia-Pacific region never capitalise the am and pm. (so 4pm, not 4PM), so Ireland is not the only country that has this issue.

And if Ireland uses 24, why does two Wikipedia articles say the 12 hour clock is predominant. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:05, 2 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

The issue of how to format AM and PM has long been debated at Wikivoyage talk:Time and date formats. So that readers don't have to deal with a wide variety of formats across articles, the Wikivoyage community decided not to vary the capitalisation and punctuation of AM and PM between countries. This is not the place in which to reopen that debate.

Also, this question should be "which clock is used most commonly in the country?" If that is the 24-hr clock (or the 12-hr clock), then we shouldn't use that. The ordering of the sections and the preference of the transport sector is not germane to the decision. Ground Zero (talk) 09:16, 2 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Doing a couple of Google Searches, and popular websites such as this use 12, just like what Wikipedia says (and what I originally thought). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:32, 2 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Google Map shows premises opening hours in format "9am - 5pm" regardless of the local convention. Go to the individual transport operator, restaurant or visitor attraction website, and in Ireland 24 hr is the commoner form. Grahamsands (talk) 21:04, 2 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

AFAIK, google uses 12 or 24 based on your region. iirc, Google Maps mostly showed the 24 hour clock in Thailand (can't remember for other countries though) and Ireland seems to be in the 12 hour region. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:08, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

I checked a dozen listings of sites, restaurants, shops and pubs from our Dublin and Cork articles, and 11 of them post their hours using the 12-hour clock. Obviously, this is not a comprehensive or scientific survey. Ground Zero (talk) 10:04, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Since every single source I'm finding that in Ireland the 12 hour clock dominates over the 24, switch? Irish rail alone isn't enough to justify that Ireland uses 24. Singapore and Australia's public transport are all universally use the 24 hour time, and so does the UK and maybe Canada? Ireland in this case does not get an exception. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:09, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Ground Zero, Grahamsands: since every single source I'm finding apart from Irish rail and Wikivoyage seems to use the 12, that probably means the 12 is more used, and switching. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:25, 4 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Okay so switch, nevertheless 24 hr is in common use. Transport is the aspect that demands timings to the minute, and its format should not be so lightly dismissed. Thanks for the tip about Google, confirming my impression that it goes by where it imagines me to be. This work has entailed so many searches of Irish websites, that even when I edit Turkey, it tries to tell me the road mileage from Sligo. It cannot yet decide if I prefer We Buy Any Car in Sligo, Undertakers in Sligo Don't Want You To Know About This Funeral Plan, or Single Women in Sligo Online Now! My task is to keep it guessing. Grahamsands (talk) 08:04, 4 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Google's algorithm is weird, but it doesn't allow you to change it. In both the US and the UK, no matter how much I tried, I just could not get Google from the imperial unit to the metric system. I imagine the same in Liberia too. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:16, 4 October 2021 (UTC)Reply