French
Deutsch| ← September 2026 | Votes for deletion archives for October 2026 | (current) November 2026 → |
- Strong delete. No offense to anyone who's worked on this, but I'm sorry, it's a really asinine disambiguation page. "Bahasa" simply means "language". It's as if we had a disambiguation for some generic English word like "land" or "island" and put everyplace with "land" or "island" in its name in it. And don't start a disambiguation page for "kuala", which means "river mouth"! Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:29, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
Keep— I created it solely to disambiguate between two different but related standard languages that are known as simply "Bahasa" in English. I know it's idiotic to some, as "bahasa" is a generic term in Malay, and Malay speakers call English "bahasa Ingg[e]ris". But it's English Wikivoyage, so I have created it based on the common use of English speakers. However, I agree there should not be such a dab page for "bahasa" or "kuala" on Indonesian WV (Malay WV is still in Incubator). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 02:34, 18 September 2026 (UTC)- There is no good reason for any language to be known solely as "bahasa". That is a misunderstanding, and one we should not be promoting. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:31, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
- I thought English speakers would use "Bahasa" as a shorthand for either language, as it's listed on the Oxford English Dictionary. If that's not the case, then I'm fine with this dab being deleted. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:30, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
- It is not the case, so delete. English speakers normally say "Malay" or Indonesian". Pashley (talk) 21:29, 19 September 2026 (UTC)
- I thought English speakers would use "Bahasa" as a shorthand for either language, as it's listed on the Oxford English Dictionary. If that's not the case, then I'm fine with this dab being deleted. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:30, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
- There is no good reason for any language to be known solely as "bahasa". That is a misunderstanding, and one we should not be promoting. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:31, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
- Delete – as a native English speaker, I don't think I think of any specific language when I solely hear the word "bahasa" – either Bahasa Melayu or Bahasa Indonesia in full, but never shortened to Bahasa. //shb (t | c | m) 07:20, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
- Delete - So this is akin to saying "I speak the language" instead of "I speak English", but in a language family where "I speak the language" is a more common phrasing? I don't think linguistic quirks in general need a disambiguation if a sentence or two in a Talk section would suffice. (As an American English speaker, I've only ever encountered the bare word "bahasa" in the context of travel advice noting this exact issue.) Gerode (talk) 15:25, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
- As a Malay-speaker: "Saya cakap bahasa" (or the equivalent in Indonesian: "Saya bicara bahasa") is a stupid sentence no-one would use. "Saya cakap bahasa Melayu/bahasa Inggeris/bahasa Perancis/Bahasa Jepun" or any other language is a meaningful sentence. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:01, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
- Also, "Saya cakap bahasa" means "I speak language." No "The" is implied in that sentence. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:16, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
- As a Malay-speaker: "Saya cakap bahasa" (or the equivalent in Indonesian: "Saya bicara bahasa") is a stupid sentence no-one would use. "Saya cakap bahasa Melayu/bahasa Inggeris/bahasa Perancis/Bahasa Jepun" or any other language is a meaningful sentence. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:01, 18 September 2026 (UTC)
- As an aside, my understanding is that Malay & Indonesian are largely mutually intelligible. (Is that correct?) I therefore wonder if there is a term covering both those languages, as Hindustani includes both Hindi & Urdu. Pashley (talk) 21:34, 19 September 2026 (UTC)
- Yes, they are largely mutually intelligible - when I was in Indonesia, I as a fluent second-language 11-year-old Malay speaker understood about 85% of what they said, and they probably understood more like 90% of what I said. I don't know a term that covers both languages. I think some linguists use "Malayo-Indonesian"?? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:03, 20 September 2026 (UTC)
- Wikipedia seems to have it as Malayic languages (but categorises Indonesian as a form of "Johor-Riau Malay"). //shb (t | c | m) 09:19, 20 September 2026 (UTC)
- It's very well-known among people familiar with the origins of Indonesian that it originates from Johor-Riau Malay. To say it's a form of that dialect doesn't strike me as quite accurate, though. It's mixed with a lot of Dutch and a lot of other Indonesian languages that are not mutually intelligible with Malay, especially when it's mixed with Jakarta slang. It's a little funny, though, that people in places like Palembang are considered in Indonesia to speak the "purest Indonesian", because they do speak dialects of Malay. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:59, 20 September 2026 (UTC)
- Wikipedia seems to have it as Malayic languages (but categorises Indonesian as a form of "Johor-Riau Malay"). //shb (t | c | m) 09:19, 20 September 2026 (UTC)
- That's why I created Bahasa purely for English speakers, as the Malay-Indonesian equivalent of Hindustani or "Serbo-Croatian". However, I'm now leaning to delete since that's not even the case as I thought. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 08:48, 25 September 2026 (UTC)
- Yes, they are largely mutually intelligible - when I was in Indonesia, I as a fluent second-language 11-year-old Malay speaker understood about 85% of what they said, and they probably understood more like 90% of what I said. I don't know a term that covers both languages. I think some linguists use "Malayo-Indonesian"?? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:03, 20 September 2026 (UTC)
- Delete Bahasa just means "language". You need to specify which language (e.g. Bahasa Melayu, Bahasa Indonesia, etc.) The dog2 (talk) 12:07, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
Outcome: deleted per consensus. //shb (t | c | m) 02:05, 4 October 2026 (UTC)
Delete as abandoned stub, unless anyone feels like trying to save it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:23, 10 October 2026 (UTC)
- I speedied it, per the second last point of WV:CSD ("Abandoned stubs with little to no substantive or salvageable content and no edits in over 7 days."). The last edit appeared to be on September 19. //shb (t | c | m) 10:27, 10 October 2026 (UTC)
Outcome: speedily deleted. //shb (t | c | m) 01:04, 11 October 2026 (UTC)
There are a few issues with this template:
- We don't really do these kinds of messages, at least not anymore. If Brendan has not responded to any of our messages for the last 10 years, I doubt any further measures will.
- The name is problematic. While it was fine back before IPs were masked, revealing the ISP constitutes personal information for the purposes of the temporary accounts policy; even if no IP data was used, it can still give that impression (since most users who deal with Brendan have access to temp account IPs).
Ignoring the issue of name, it's also a lot easier to detect where a temporary account is from just using Special:Contributions (which all admins have access to). If it's a registered account, a checkuser at WV:RfCU can do so in a matter of minutes. It's not worth having a dedicated template for one LTA, especially when far better methods exist for detecting Brendan socks than placing this template. //shb (t | c | m) 06:01, 8 September 2026 (UTC)
- I understand your argument, but this template is used on 399 pages. AlasdairW (talk) 22:46, 8 September 2026 (UTC)
- @AlasdairW: I'm planning on substituting this template on all those pages in the next 14 days. //shb (t | c | m) 23:19, 8 September 2026 (UTC)
- Brought the list down to 200. //shb (t | c | m) 12:50, 13 September 2026 (UTC)
Done – all transcluded. I still maintain that deletion is the only acceptable outcome for this template (per the TAIV policy, which overrides our local procedures), or at least if the template isn't renamed. //shb (t | c | m) 10:37, 5 October 2026 (UTC) - I don't normally do this, much less so for my own nominations, but I'm going to delete this tomorrow if nobody objects. We cannot have blatant violations of the TAIV policy lying around. //shb (t | c | m) 01:03, 11 October 2026 (UTC)
- Brought the list down to 200. //shb (t | c | m) 12:50, 13 September 2026 (UTC)
- @AlasdairW: I'm planning on substituting this template on all those pages in the next 14 days. //shb (t | c | m) 23:19, 8 September 2026 (UTC)
Outcome: Deleted without objections. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:56, 11 October 2026 (UTC)
- Delete and merge into English language varieties. Even if it may have its own idiosyncrasies, it's still English. And although there are some slang terms that speakers from elsewhere may not understand, for the most part, what Indians learn in school is standard British English with a few minor differences. The dog2 (talk) 08:35, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
- Keep as author. I created this mainly to help travellers to India, or broadly South Asia, since South Asian English has its own idiosyncrasies. This is not mere UK vs. US English if you look things closely, as Indian/South Asian English has its own phonology (native speakers famously find it difficult to understand) and even numbering system (lakhs and crores instead of millions and billions). See Brazilian Portuguese phrasebook for a similar case, although the difference between European and Brazilian is mainly in pronunciation and vocabulary. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:29, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
- Regarding education, yes Indians learn UK English in school. But those learners still use lakhs and crores in English for large numbers, as I wonder whether they are really taught how to use "million", "billion", etc. for large numbers. I don't remember learning such things in my childhood English education, and I started using lakhs and crores long before I learnt about millions and billions from the Internet. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:33, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
- In addition, many schools don't teach how to pronounce English with Received Pronunciation. The students just adopt how friends, family and faculty pronounce English. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:36, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
- But we can cover all those under the English language varieties article. The dog2 (talk) 02:10, 27 September 2026 (UTC)
- No reason to do so. If you object to it being considered a phrasebook, we can turn it into a travel topic like Australian slang, but I don't see why. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:44, 27 September 2026 (UTC)
- I think a travel topic makes more sense than a phrasebook for what is essentially a different dialect of the same language. The dog2 (talk) 04:38, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
- How far do you want to stretch that? Should the Jamaican Patois phrasebook remain a phrasebook? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:46, 4 October 2026 (UTC)
- If being mere dialects of the same language is the reason to merge dialect phrasebooks, then I think Brazilian Portuguese phrasebook should also be merged to Portuguese phrasebook, Egyptian Arabic phrasebook to Arabic phrasebook, Ladakhi phrasebook to Tibetan phrasebook, Mandarin phrasebook and Cantonese phrasebook to "Chinese phrasebook", etc.
- Dialect phrasebooks exist precisely because those dialects are not necessarily mutually intelligible to others. The mutual intelligibility between South Asian English and other English dialects is noticeably lower than the one between UK and US English; as SA English has thick accents and different numbering system.
- On the flip side, we have four phrasebooks for essentially the same language with little to no differences (Serbo-Croatian), like Bosnian phrasebook, Croatian phrasebook, Montenegrin phrasebook and Serbian phrasebook. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:48, 4 October 2026 (UTC)
- Chinese "dialects" are so-called for the same reason Serbo-Croatian "languages" are: w:A language is a dialect with an army and navy. No linguist thinks Cantonese and Mandarin are the same language, any more than Polish and German are, but they are written with the same characters (mostly), and Polish and German are written with essentially the same alphabet but very little overlap in how words are represented. Anyway, your points are well taken, and could be taken further: I've read comments from Tunisians who listened to a presentation about Maltese that it is virtually the same as Tunisian Arabic and essentially 100% intelligible to them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:04, 4 October 2026 (UTC)
- I think a travel topic makes more sense than a phrasebook for what is essentially a different dialect of the same language. The dog2 (talk) 04:38, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
- No reason to do so. If you object to it being considered a phrasebook, we can turn it into a travel topic like Australian slang, but I don't see why. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:44, 27 September 2026 (UTC)
- But we can cover all those under the English language varieties article. The dog2 (talk) 02:10, 27 September 2026 (UTC)
- In addition, many schools don't teach how to pronounce English with Received Pronunciation. The students just adopt how friends, family and faculty pronounce English. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:36, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
- Regarding education, yes Indians learn UK English in school. But those learners still use lakhs and crores in English for large numbers, as I wonder whether they are really taught how to use "million", "billion", etc. for large numbers. I don't remember learning such things in my childhood English education, and I started using lakhs and crores long before I learnt about millions and billions from the Internet. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:33, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
- Keep as author. I created this mainly to help travellers to India, or broadly South Asia, since South Asian English has its own idiosyncrasies. This is not mere UK vs. US English if you look things closely, as Indian/South Asian English has its own phonology (native speakers famously find it difficult to understand) and even numbering system (lakhs and crores instead of millions and billions). See Brazilian Portuguese phrasebook for a similar case, although the difference between European and Brazilian is mainly in pronunciation and vocabulary. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:29, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
- Comment: You cannot merge and delete, because of the attribution duty. I am neutral on whether to merge and redirect, for the time being. —The preceding comment was added by LPfi (talk • contribs) 11:03, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
- Exactly. On whether to merge it: some of it could be merged, but could all of it? I question that. And if anything, I could see a basis for there also being a Malaysian-Singapore English phrasebook, too. Note that we also have an Australian slang article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:45, 26 September 2026 (UTC)
- I'd say the topic is clearly worth covering, but not worth its own article. Create a section in either South Asia or English language varieties, in either case with links from the other & from several country articles, & merge both this article & the section at India#English there. I'd mildly prefer putting it under South Asia. Pashley (talk) 16:28, 27 September 2026 (UTC)
- I don't think merging most of it to India#English makes sense, given the latter is the sixth-largest article on Wikivoyage as of this writing (see Special:LongPages). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:59, 27 September 2026 (UTC)
- Now it's the eighth-longest article after trims, which might continue if there's anything to trim further. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 04:40, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
- I don't think merging most of it to India#English makes sense, given the latter is the sixth-largest article on Wikivoyage as of this writing (see Special:LongPages). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:59, 27 September 2026 (UTC)
- Keep. It is too long for India#English, it doesn't fit well with English language varieties (which would need to be rewritten to accommodate it) and it is useful. If a freer format is beneficial for the topic, the authors/editors should be free to make it a travel topic, but I see no reason to force a rename and a removal from Phrasebooks (which are what a change from phrasebook to travel topic essentially entails). –LPfi (talk) 14:21, 4 October 2026 (UTC)
- I think it could be beneficial if we could move it to travel topic, as the English-to-target language format used in phrasebooks is not suitable for South Asian English. Like instead of "spare wheel -> stepney", a format like "stepney -> spare wheel" could be better. Apparently, the phrasebook itself has extra sections compared to the template. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:25, 4 October 2026 (UTC)
- So go ahead. We really don't need a deletion request thread to discuss that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:51, 4 October 2026 (UTC)
- I think it could be beneficial if we could move it to travel topic, as the English-to-target language format used in phrasebooks is not suitable for South Asian English. Like instead of "spare wheel -> stepney", a format like "stepney -> spare wheel" could be better. Apparently, the phrasebook itself has extra sections compared to the template. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:25, 4 October 2026 (UTC)
- I've thought about it for a few days, and I land firmly in the keep camp. I think it probably is more beneficial to convert this into a travel topic, but that's not the discussion we're having at VfD. //shb (t | c | m) 10:51, 5 October 2026 (UTC)
- Comment My concern is that it generalises and lumps all of South Asia into one dialect of English. The accents in Nepal, Assam/Northeast and Bhutan are vastly different to mainstream Northern India and Pakistan. Aloo is used as the word for potato in Punjabi, Hindi and Bengali but it's not used in e.g. Western India (potato is batata in Gujarati and Marathi). Ragging also doesn't precisely mean bullying but rather hazing, the humiliating ritual than senior students do to juniors. And words like film/movie and chicken are habitually used among English speakers in the region too. Another thing, how do we know much of what has been written also applies to e.g. Sri Lanka or the Maldives. Or for that matter, even Pakistan? Namaste would only be used in parts of India and Nepal, and even then hello and hi are very commonly heard among English speakers. About a third of the South Asian region says "Salaam Alaikum" and other parts would say "Sat Sri Akal", "Vannakam", "Ayubowan", etc. If this is to be kept, I would support a restructure towards something like Australian slang or at the very least clearly articulating where and in which context the unique vocabulary may be used. Gizza (roam) 05:54, 9 October 2026 (UTC)
- Thank you. That's why I have thought rescoping it to "Indian English" travel topic to focus on what is peculiar to India without assuming that the same applies to neighbouring countries.
- And yes you're right that "aloo" means "potato" only in certain regions. But I wonder whether dishes like "aloo gobhi" would be called something else in other regions or not (while speaking English of course, not native tongues).
- Plus I might have given the wrong translation of "ragging" as I was taught about this without a synonym. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:45, 9 October 2026 (UTC)
- Regarding "namaste" and "namaskar", they are widely understood among Indians regardless of region or religion, even if a third would otherwise use "salam alaikum", "sat sri akal", "vanakkam", etc. Those specific greetings can be covered in respective language or religion article without crowding the English article. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:51, 9 October 2026 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that's the point on namaste and namaskar: regardless of how widely they're understood, are they used much by Muslims, such as in Pakistan and Bangladesh, or is assalamu alaikum the standard greeting? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:40, 9 October 2026 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, they aren't well understood in Pakistan or Bangladesh, and they consider such greetings as Hindu or Indian. Whereas people in India recognize the greeting regardless of region or religion. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:03, 10 October 2026 (UTC)
- But they're part of South Asia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:16, 10 October 2026 (UTC)
- That's why the name "South Asian English" did not work, and it must be just "Indian English". I imagined a common phonology and lexicon among South Asians but turns out not everything in India really travels to other countries.
- Once converted into a travel topic, I will also add some Hinglish examples that demonstrates code-switching between Hindi and English. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:31, 10 October 2026 (UTC)
- But they're part of South Asia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:16, 10 October 2026 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, they aren't well understood in Pakistan or Bangladesh, and they consider such greetings as Hindu or Indian. Whereas people in India recognize the greeting regardless of region or religion. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:03, 10 October 2026 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that's the point on namaste and namaskar: regardless of how widely they're understood, are they used much by Muslims, such as in Pakistan and Bangladesh, or is assalamu alaikum the standard greeting? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:40, 9 October 2026 (UTC)
- Regarding "namaste" and "namaskar", they are widely understood among Indians regardless of region or religion, even if a third would otherwise use "salam alaikum", "sat sri akal", "vanakkam", etc. Those specific greetings can be covered in respective language or religion article without crowding the English article. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:51, 9 October 2026 (UTC)
Outcome: This article has been left here for well more than the required 14 days. It's clear there's no consensus to delete; there are some good points raised about changing the scope to either a travel topic or narrowing it down to just (northern) India only, but those do not involve deletion and can be decided upon the talk page. //shb (t • c) 00:12, 14 October 2026 (UTC)
Just created as a redirect to South_Asian_cuisine#Curries, but that is too restrictive. Thailand also has many curries & we have Japan#Curry, and so on. I do not think we need a disambiguation page here, though. Pashley (talk) 14:39, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- Delete. "Curry" describes dishes across a geographically wide range, and I don't think it's a great candidate for its own travel topic. Gerode (talk) 15:46, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- Maybe "Asian cuisine" could work, even though the continent is too diverse. I guess it can act as an overview of regional cuisines with mentions of common dishes across much of the continent, like rice (bread in West and Central Asia) and curry. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:46, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
Keepas creator. While there are curry dishes in other countries, the pre-colonial ones are generally found in South and Southeast Asia. I guess the one in Japan is inspired from the Indian curry, albeit different. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:30, 28 October 2026 (UTC)- PS: South Asian cuisine#Curries does describe what a "curry" is:
A curry is a dish based on herbs and spices, together with either meat or vegetables. A curry can be either "dry" or "wet" depending on the amount of liquid.
Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 18:03, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- PS: South Asian cuisine#Curries does describe what a "curry" is:
- Delete per others. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:15, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- Delete per WIAA. Unneeded, just as articles named "Rice" or "Potato" would be. Ibaman (talk) 18:19, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- It's a redirect, not an article. I have checked WV:WIAA and it says:
If an attraction or an event is really famous, and travellers may not know the city or region it is in, then create an article with the attraction name as title, but make it a redirect to the appropriate destination article, and put the actual description of the attraction in the destination article.
I thought it's applicable for food. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 18:38, 28 October 2026 (UTC)- That's arguable, but curries are so widespread that a redirect just doesn't work in this case. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:27, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- Maybe, but it's described in South Asian cuisine, and region is well-known for its curry dishes (the word "curry" is from a South Asian language). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 19:33, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- If your etymology is correct, explain w:The Forme of Cury. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:49, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- Maybe, but it's described in South Asian cuisine, and region is well-known for its curry dishes (the word "curry" is from a South Asian language). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 19:33, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- That's arguable, but curries are so widespread that a redirect just doesn't work in this case. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:27, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- It's a redirect, not an article. I have checked WV:WIAA and it says:
- Delete Readers may be looking for a place called Curry, not the dish. We have articles for two cities which are in different Curry Counties Clovis (New Mexico) and Gold Beach. There are also 6 tiny villages called Curry. AlasdairW (talk) 18:21, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- Delete. I assume people interested in South Asian curry can easily find South Asian cuisine and the right section therein without the redirect, such as via India#Eat. Those who want to know what a curry is without regard to a specific country or region should turn to Wikipedia. I assume Wikipedia has enough information for those who want to travel to a place with good genuine curries to find good candidate regions to research here. –LPfi (talk) 19:37, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- I have struck my keep vote, and I am now convinced why there shouldn't be even redirects for such topics. So I vote speedy delete as author, and I agree not to create more redirects unless necessary as per WV:WIAA. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 19:41, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
- Since you [Sbb] have agreed to deletion, I think we can speedy close this now. //shb (t • c) 21:01, 28 October 2026 (UTC)
Outcome: speedily deleted as author request. //shb (t • c) 21:02, 28 October 2026 (UTC)